vibhajjavada

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
justindesilva
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Re: vibhajjavada

Post by justindesilva »

SarathW wrote: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:52 pm
I actually prefer this term
I like it too.
It represents the real meaning of Buddha's teaching.
Vibhajjavadin does not have any biased based on religion, country, sex, color or language.
They praise the correct views and they disparage the wrong view irrespective of where it comes from.
It appears Vibhajjavada is gathering its momentum in Sri Lanka.
In fact the meaning of vibajjavada is logical reasoning.
The modern society in buddhism is more on understanding budda darma through reasoning. Thripitaka is a great help but should not be blindly followed. Many Sri lankan monks now explain damma logically and helps the modern youth with a knowledge of science. Anicca, dukka , anatma are darma that can be understood by ligical reasoning.
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rightviewftw
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Re: vibhajjavada

Post by rightviewftw »

SarathW wrote: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:52 pm It appears Vibhajjavada is gathering its momentum in Sri Lanka.
that's great. how do you notice this?
'Bhikkhus, possessing three qualities, a bhikkhu is practicing the unmistaken way and has laid the groundwork for the destruction of the taints. What three? Here, a bhikkhu guards the doors of the sense faculties, observes moderation in eating, and is intent on wakefulness. He should develop perception of unattractiveness so as to abandon lust... good will so as to abandon ill will... mindfulness of in-&-out breathing so as to cut off distractive thinking... the perception of inconstancy so as to uproot the conceit, 'I am.
SarathW
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Re: vibhajjavada

Post by SarathW »

rightviewftw wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:14 am
SarathW wrote: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:52 pm It appears Vibhajjavada is gathering its momentum in Sri Lanka.
that's great. how do you notice this?
There is a group call Vibhahhavada in Sri Lanka.

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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rightviewftw
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Re: vibhajjavada

Post by rightviewftw »

SarathW wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:25 am
Thanks! unfortunately i do not understand what they are saying but i like the name of the group :)
'Bhikkhus, possessing three qualities, a bhikkhu is practicing the unmistaken way and has laid the groundwork for the destruction of the taints. What three? Here, a bhikkhu guards the doors of the sense faculties, observes moderation in eating, and is intent on wakefulness. He should develop perception of unattractiveness so as to abandon lust... good will so as to abandon ill will... mindfulness of in-&-out breathing so as to cut off distractive thinking... the perception of inconstancy so as to uproot the conceit, 'I am.
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Ontheway
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Re: vibhajjavada

Post by Ontheway »

"Vibhajjavādo kho ahamettha, māṇava; nāhamettha ekaṁsavādo."

Translation:
"I am one who speaks after making an analysis, student, I do not speak one-sidedly."

- Subha Sutta, MN99

By this, what was said by Arahant Moggaliputta Tissa to King Asoka is verifiable by this Sutta. So, I accept wholeheartedly that Buddhasasana is of Vibhajjavada.
"Vibhajjavādo kho ahamettha, māṇava; nāhamettha ekaṁsavādo." - Buddha (Subha Sutta MN99)
josaphatbarlaam
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Re: vibhajjavada

Post by josaphatbarlaam »

Apparently this was the original name of Theravada before it became called "Theravada" (which according to Pulsar was in the 1800s). That, however, would make it suspect that the sect simply snuck their name into Buddha's mouth in the quoted sutta. In any case apparently the name is used as the name of the approved sect in Kathavathu and Visudhimagga (written at the request of Sanghaphala, "a member of the lineage of the Mahaviharasins, illustrious Theriyas, best of Vibhajjavādins") per some articles I found online. A version of the name is even found in the Theravada vinaya apparently https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-kd13/en/horner-brahmali (scroll to very bottom)
The recitation is for the maintenance of true dhamma
among the teachers of the Vibhajja doctrines,
and who, dwellers in the Mahāvihāra, illuminate Tambapaṇṇidīpa.
Supposedly it is the perspective of Moggaliputta-Tissa at the supposed 3rd council and differentiates the Abhidhammists against the Sarvāstivādans, Pudgalavādans, and Lokottaravādans.

Technically then it is a sectarian designation not the original name of Buddhists. The original name was undoubtedly Sakyans or Sakyaputta. But it seems Vibhajjavāda is the more honest designation for Theravada, because its not the position of the elders but of one elder, Moggaliputta-Tissa, and his clique. Surely the Sarvāstivādans, Pudgalavādans, and Lokottaravādans also had plenty of elders on their side.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: vibhajjavada

Post by Ceisiwr »

josaphatbarlaam wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:05 am
Supposedly it is the perspective of Moggaliputta-Tissa at the supposed 3rd council and differentiates the Abhidhammists against the Sarvāstivādans, Pudgalavādans, and Lokottaravādans.
All those had their own Abhidharma too.
Technically then it is a sectarian designation not the original name of Buddhists. The original name was undoubtedly Sakyans or Sakyaputta. But it seems Vibhajjavāda is the more honest designation for Theravada, because its not the position of the elders but of one elder, Moggaliputta-Tissa, and his clique. Surely the Sarvāstivādans, Pudgalavādans, and Lokottaravādans also had plenty of elders on their side.
They did. Ven. Kātyayanīputra for the Sarvāstivādins is an example. Interestingly Ven. Moggaliputta-Tissa makes an appearance in a Sarvāstivādin text which is similar to the Kathāvatthu, of sorts. There his ideas are refuted, without much chance of a reply, in favour of Sarvāstivādin positions. For example, they call him a proponent of cognition of nothing because he argues that dhammas which have ceased can still be known, which is contrary to the Sarvāstivādin position regarding dhammas existing in the past (since this is how we can think about the past).
Vibhajjavādins
Others were labelled this too. The best explanation I’ve seen is that it applies to those who make distinctions between the past, present and future. Interestingly the Pudgalavādins also accepted tri-temporal realism and so could also be called Sarvāstivāda, and possibly used this label sometimes. Sometimes Sarvāstivādins preferred to call themselves the school of logic (I forget what the Sanskrit name for that is), or Shunyatavadins when arguing against the Pudgalavādins. Sometimes Hetuvāda (causation school). We know that others were calling themselves Sarvāstivādins as Ven. Saṃghabhadra makes a point of arguing that the label can be only applied to those who accept tri-temporal realism and also accept the 3 unconditioned dharmas (space and 2 types of nirvana). Interestingly this would mean one of the elders of the school, before his time, wasn’t a Sarvāstivādin as he didn’t accept space or one of the nirvanas (I forget which along with the venerable’s name at the moment).
“When there are words, there is the fetter of birth and death. When words do not exist, there is nirvāṇa. Those who have words have birth, death, arising and cessation; those who have no words have no birth, no death, no arising and no cessation.”

EĀ 30:1
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