Sutta about not listening to music

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pedro1985
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Sutta about not listening to music

Post by pedro1985 »

Is there a sutta why it is better to not listen to music?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Sutta about not listening to music

Post by tiltbillings »

Unless one is a monk, I certainly hope not.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Sutta about not listening to music

Post by Khalil Bodhi »

Hello,

The Uposatha Sutta includes not seeking out music or entertainment as one of the training rules of the eight precepts and may be found here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .vaka.html

I'll look to see what I can find but this may be it. Mettaya!
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

The Stoic Buddhist: https://www.quora.com/q/dwxmcndlgmobmeu ... pOR2p0uAdH
My Practice Blog:
http://khalilbodhi.wordpress.com
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Alobha
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Re: Sutta about not listening to music

Post by Alobha »

What's the reason the buddha had for recommending not listening to music? I tried finding out in the patimokkha but didn't find anything except for the uposatha rule.
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Beneath the Wheel
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Re: Sutta about not listening to music

Post by Beneath the Wheel »

I had a look through Thanissaro's "The buddhist monastic code".

It looks like most references to singing, dancing and music are based on the Rona Sutta
There is a dukkata for going to see dancing, singing, or music. According to the
Commentary, dancing includes going to see even peacocks dancing. It also includes
dancing oneself and getting others to dance. (The Rona Sutta—AN 3.103—notes that, in
the discipline of the noble ones, dancing counts as insanity.) Singing includes drama
music as well as “sadhu music,” which the Commentary to Bhikkhunı Pc 10 defines as
songs sung “at the time of the total Unbinding of a noble one, connected with the
virtues of the Triple Gem.” The Sub-commentary to Cv.V.36 defines it as music dealing
with Dhamma themes such as impermanence. Other religious music would come under
this prohibition as well. The Commentary adds that “singing” also includes singing
oneself and getting others to sing. The same holds true for “playing music.” (The Rona
Sutta also notes that, in the discipline of the noble ones, singing counts as wailing.)
Otsom
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Re: Sutta about not listening to music

Post by Otsom »

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Last edited by Otsom on Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
alan
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Re: Sutta about not listening to music

Post by alan »

In the Buddha's time, you would have had to make a journey to seek out music, and it is fair to say that passions and attachments would inevitably result. Makes sense to ban it for monks.
Having said that, I can't see any reason for a lay person to avoid music.
In fact, I think some music is actually helpful if it brings joy and is motivational.
Jazz, anyone? I love it. If Louis Armstrong is bad, then I don't want to be good.
danieLion
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Re: Sutta about not listening to music

Post by danieLion »

Hi pedro1985,
I used to listen to music a lot. Now, if I'm not careful (practice some restraint) songs get stuck in my head and play like loops, including while I sit.
Sorry it's not a sutta reference.
Daniel :heart:
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tiltbillings
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Re: Sutta about not listening to music

Post by tiltbillings »

Otsom wrote:So don't crave for pleasant details in variation in air pressure. Stop listening to music. :smile:
Don't enjoy anything and avoid any thing that might bring any sort of enjoyment, pleasure, happiness, and satisfaction.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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tiltbillings
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Re: Sutta about not listening to music

Post by tiltbillings »

danieLion wrote:Hi pedro1985,
I used to listen to music a lot. Now, if I'm not careful (practice some restraint) songs get stuck in my head and play like loops, including while I sit.
Sorry it's not a sutta reference.
Daniel :heart:
If a song gets stuck in your head while you are sitting, what do you do? Is it an occasion for negative feelings in response to the this bit of mental music?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
danieLion
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Re: Sutta about not listening to music

Post by danieLion »

tiltbillings wrote:
danieLion wrote:Hi pedro1985,
I used to listen to music a lot. Now, if I'm not careful (practice some restraint) songs get stuck in my head and play like loops, including while I sit.
Sorry it's not a sutta reference.
Daniel :heart:
If a song gets stuck in your head while you are sitting, what do you do? Is it an occasion for negative feelings in response to the this bit of mental music?
Depends.
D :heart:
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tiltbillings
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Re: Sutta about not listening to music

Post by tiltbillings »

danieLion wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
danieLion wrote:Hi pedro1985,
I used to listen to music a lot. Now, if I'm not careful (practice some restraint) songs get stuck in my head and play like loops, including while I sit.
Sorry it's not a sutta reference.
Daniel :heart:
If a song gets stuck in your head while you are sitting, what do you do? Is it an occasion for negative feelings in response to the this bit of mental music?
Depends.
D :heart:
At least you will not have to worry about incontinence.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Sutta about not listening to music

Post by danieLion »

danieLion wrote:Hi pedro1985,
I used to listen to music a lot. Now, if I'm not careful (practice some restraint) songs get stuck in my head and play like loops, including while I sit.
Sorry it's not a sutta reference.
Daniel :heart:
tiltbillings wrote:If a song gets stuck in your head while you are sitting, what do you do? Is it an occasion for negative feelings in response to the this bit of mental music?
danieLion wrote:Depends.
D :heart:
tiltbillings wrote:At least you will not have to worry about incontinence.
:lol: Had a feeling that'd become a diaper joke but was too tired to edit it.
I'm going to bed with a copy of the Visuddhimagga to help me fall asleep.
D :heart:
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Alexei
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Re: Sutta about not listening to music

Post by Alexei »

Interesting case from DN 21:
...taking his yellow beluva-wood lute, he approached the Indasala Cave. Thinking: ‘As far as this is neither too far nor too near to the Lord, and he will hear my voice,’ he stood to one side. Then, to the strains of his lute, he sang these verses extolling the Buddha, the Dharma, the Arahants, and love:
[...]
When he heard this, the Lord said: ‘Pancasikha, the sound of your strings blends so well with your song, and your song with the strings, that neither prevails excessively over the other. When did you compose these verses on the Buddha, the Dharma, the Arahants, and love?’
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Alobha
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Re: Sutta about not listening to music

Post by Alobha »

Beneath the Wheel wrote:I had a look through Thanissaro's "The buddhist monastic code".

It looks like most references to singing, dancing and music are based on the Rona Sutta
There is a dukkata for going to see dancing, singing, or music. According to the
Commentary, dancing includes going to see even peacocks dancing. It also includes
dancing oneself and getting others to dance. (The Rona Sutta—AN 3.103—notes that, in
the discipline of the noble ones, dancing counts as insanity.) Singing includes drama
music as well as “sadhu music,” which the Commentary to Bhikkhunı Pc 10 defines as
songs sung “at the time of the total Unbinding of a noble one, connected with the
virtues of the Triple Gem.” The Sub-commentary to Cv.V.36 defines it as music dealing
with Dhamma themes such as impermanence. Other religious music would come under
this prohibition as well. The Commentary adds that “singing” also includes singing
oneself and getting others to sing. The same holds true for “playing music.” (The Rona
Sutta also notes that, in the discipline of the noble ones, singing counts as wailing.)
The mentioned source in your quote, AN 3.103, is the Nimitta Sutta and it deals with Nimittas, not with music at all. I didn't find any Rona Sutta on accesstoinsight or palikanon.com.

However, i found something else:
DN.11 Kevatta (Kevaddha) Sutta
"So after some time he abandons his mass of wealth, large or small; leaves his circle of relatives, large or small; shaves off his hair and beard, puts on the ochre robes, and goes forth from the household life into homelessness.

"When he has thus gone forth, he lives restrained by the rules of the monastic code, seeing danger in the slightest faults. Consummate in his virtue, he guards the doors of his senses, is possessed of mindfulness and alertness, and is content.

The Lesser Section on Virtue

"And how is a monk consummate in virtue? [...]

"He abstains from dancing, singing, instrumental music, and from watching shows.

[...]

The Intermediate Section on Virtue


"Whereas some priests and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to watching shows such as these — dancing, singing, instrumental music, plays, ballad recitations, hand-clapping, cymbals and drums, magic lantern scenes, acrobatic and conjuring tricks, elephant fights, horse fights, buffalo fights, bull fights, goat fights, ram fights, cock fights, quail fights; fighting with staves, boxing, wrestling, war-games, roll calls, battle arrays, and regimental reviews — he abstains from watching shows such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue.

"Whereas some priests and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to heedless and idle games such as these — eight-row chess, ten-row chess, chess in the air, hopscotch, spillikins, dice, stick games, hand-pictures, ball-games, blowing through toy pipes, playing with toy plows, turning somersaults, playing with toy windmills, toy measures, toy chariots, toy bows, guessing letters drawn in the air, guessing thoughts, mimicking deformities — he abstains from heedless and idle games such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue.
Keep the context in mind, the buddha talked about the virtue of his disciples.
Otsoms quotes are fitting in the broader context, too. (Thanks Otsom!)
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