Uposatha drinks

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Alobha
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Uposatha drinks

Post by Alobha »

Hello everybody,

i know that milk is considered food and that one can't drink it after 12 a.m.
Is it the same with clear soup and clear vegetable stock ?

Kind regards,
Alobha
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Ben
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Re: Uposatha drinks

Post by Ben »

Greetings Alobha,
My understanding is that consuming broth after noon would contravene the relavant sila unless one were ill.
That understanding is based on the monastic code: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... h08-4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
kind regards,

Ben
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Re: Uposatha drinks

Post by Cittasanto »

Alobha wrote:Hello everybody,

i know that milk is considered food and that one can't drink it after 12 a.m.
Is it the same with clear soup and clear vegetable stock ?

Kind regards,
Alobha
Milk is a gray area in the vinaya, it is certainly allowable before noon, and while traveling, but Ghee (clarified butter) and cheese which at the time of the Buddha would of been more soft than hard (both milk products) are allowable, it is simply not specifically covered in the vinaya as either an allowable or unallowable substance in the afternoon period.

Clear stock is allowable for the sick to my understanding, as are the tonics (two of which are mentioned above) but gilana = sick does have a wide range in meaning and can be anything from discomfort due to hunger to a severe condition.
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Dorian
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Re: Uposatha drinks

Post by Dorian »

And what about plant milk? Is it considered to be 'juice' and, therefore, can be drunk in the afternoon?
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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Uposatha drinks

Post by Khalil Bodhi »

Hi Dorian,

According to Bhante Suddhaso almond and coconut milk are allowable. As always, it is probably better to forego them if possible (it's only a day after all). Mettacittena!

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bazzaman
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Re: Uposatha drinks

Post by bazzaman »

Cittasanto wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:24 pm
Alobha
Milk is a gray area in the vinaya, it is certainly allowable before noon, and while traveling, but Ghee (clarified butter) and cheese which at the time of the Buddha would of been more soft than hard (both milk products) are allowable,...
[/quote]

I think cheese (and also chocolate) is a Thai thing... not allowable in Burma. I don't know about Sri Lanka.
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salayatananirodha
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Re: Uposatha drinks

Post by salayatananirodha »

if the moon phase falls on a 15th (lunar fortnight), then you observe the day before and the day of; this is how i understand it
and ghee and cheese are not really allowable in my opinion, thats a thai tradition?
you can have pulp-less fruit juice and there are various other drinks that i read about but dont remember and dont consume anyway. like khalil said its only a day (except when its two days), and you dont need any of it to get by
can also have coffee and tea
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Re: Uposatha drinks

Post by Dhammanando »

salayatananirodha wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:16 pm and ghee and cheese are not really allowable in my opinion, thats a thai tradition?
Ghee (sappi) is uncontroversial; it's one of the five tonics. Cheese is widely accepted in Thailand as being included in navanīta, another of the five tonics, though this is likely an error.
Ajahn Thanissaro on 'navanīta' wrote: Fresh butter must be made from the milk of any animal whose flesh is allowable. None of the Vinaya texts go into detail on how fresh butter is made, but MN 126 describes the process as "having sprinkled curds in a pot, one twirls them with a churn." Fresh butter of this sort is still made in India today by taking a small churn — looking like an orange with alternate sections removed, attached to a small stick — and twirling it in curds, all the while sprinkling them with water. The fresh butter — mostly milk fat — coagulates on the churn, and when the fresh butter is removed, what is left in the pot is diluted buttermilk. Fresh butter, unlike creamery butter made by churning cream, may be stored unrefrigerated in bottles for several days even in the heat of India without going rancid.

Arguing by the Great Standards, creamery butter would obviously come under fresh butter here. A more controversial topic is cheese.

In Mv.VI.34.21, the Buddha allows bhikkhus to consume five products of the cow: milk, curds, buttermilk, fresh butter, and ghee. Apparently, cheese — curds heated to evaporate their liquid content and then cured with or without mold — was unknown in those days, but there seems every reason, using the Great Standards, to include it under one of the five. The question is which one. Some have argued that it should come under fresh butter, but the argument for classifying it under curds seems stronger, as it is closer to curds in composition and is generally regarded as more of a substantial food. Different Communities, however, have differing opinions on this matter.
salayatananirodha wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:16 pmcan also have coffee and tea
In Thailand you can. In many Burmese monasteries tea is classified as a food because of the local practice of fermenting tea leaves and eating them.
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