Hello everybody,
i know that milk is considered food and that one can't drink it after 12 a.m.
Is it the same with clear soup and clear vegetable stock ?
Kind regards,
Alobha
Uposatha drinks
Re: Uposatha drinks
Greetings Alobha,
My understanding is that consuming broth after noon would contravene the relavant sila unless one were ill.
That understanding is based on the monastic code: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... h08-4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
kind regards,
Ben
My understanding is that consuming broth after noon would contravene the relavant sila unless one were ill.
That understanding is based on the monastic code: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... h08-4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
kind regards,
Ben
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- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
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Re: Uposatha drinks
Milk is a gray area in the vinaya, it is certainly allowable before noon, and while traveling, but Ghee (clarified butter) and cheese which at the time of the Buddha would of been more soft than hard (both milk products) are allowable, it is simply not specifically covered in the vinaya as either an allowable or unallowable substance in the afternoon period.Alobha wrote:Hello everybody,
i know that milk is considered food and that one can't drink it after 12 a.m.
Is it the same with clear soup and clear vegetable stock ?
Kind regards,
Alobha
Clear stock is allowable for the sick to my understanding, as are the tonics (two of which are mentioned above) but gilana = sick does have a wide range in meaning and can be anything from discomfort due to hunger to a severe condition.
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...
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: Uposatha drinks
And what about plant milk? Is it considered to be 'juice' and, therefore, can be drunk in the afternoon?
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Re: Uposatha drinks
Hi Dorian,
According to Bhante Suddhaso almond and coconut milk are allowable. As always, it is probably better to forego them if possible (it's only a day after all). Mettacittena!
KB
According to Bhante Suddhaso almond and coconut milk are allowable. As always, it is probably better to forego them if possible (it's only a day after all). Mettacittena!
KB
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Re: Uposatha drinks
Milk is a gray area in the vinaya, it is certainly allowable before noon, and while traveling, but Ghee (clarified butter) and cheese which at the time of the Buddha would of been more soft than hard (both milk products) are allowable,...
[/quote]
I think cheese (and also chocolate) is a Thai thing... not allowable in Burma. I don't know about Sri Lanka.
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Re: Uposatha drinks
if the moon phase falls on a 15th (lunar fortnight), then you observe the day before and the day of; this is how i understand it
and ghee and cheese are not really allowable in my opinion, thats a thai tradition?
you can have pulp-less fruit juice and there are various other drinks that i read about but dont remember and dont consume anyway. like khalil said its only a day (except when its two days), and you dont need any of it to get by
can also have coffee and tea
and ghee and cheese are not really allowable in my opinion, thats a thai tradition?
you can have pulp-less fruit juice and there are various other drinks that i read about but dont remember and dont consume anyway. like khalil said its only a day (except when its two days), and you dont need any of it to get by
can also have coffee and tea
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Re: Uposatha drinks
Ghee (sappi) is uncontroversial; it's one of the five tonics. Cheese is widely accepted in Thailand as being included in navanīta, another of the five tonics, though this is likely an error.salayatananirodha wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:16 pm and ghee and cheese are not really allowable in my opinion, thats a thai tradition?
Ajahn Thanissaro on 'navanīta' wrote: Fresh butter must be made from the milk of any animal whose flesh is allowable. None of the Vinaya texts go into detail on how fresh butter is made, but MN 126 describes the process as "having sprinkled curds in a pot, one twirls them with a churn." Fresh butter of this sort is still made in India today by taking a small churn — looking like an orange with alternate sections removed, attached to a small stick — and twirling it in curds, all the while sprinkling them with water. The fresh butter — mostly milk fat — coagulates on the churn, and when the fresh butter is removed, what is left in the pot is diluted buttermilk. Fresh butter, unlike creamery butter made by churning cream, may be stored unrefrigerated in bottles for several days even in the heat of India without going rancid.
Arguing by the Great Standards, creamery butter would obviously come under fresh butter here. A more controversial topic is cheese.
In Mv.VI.34.21, the Buddha allows bhikkhus to consume five products of the cow: milk, curds, buttermilk, fresh butter, and ghee. Apparently, cheese — curds heated to evaporate their liquid content and then cured with or without mold — was unknown in those days, but there seems every reason, using the Great Standards, to include it under one of the five. The question is which one. Some have argued that it should come under fresh butter, but the argument for classifying it under curds seems stronger, as it is closer to curds in composition and is generally regarded as more of a substantial food. Different Communities, however, have differing opinions on this matter.
In Thailand you can. In many Burmese monasteries tea is classified as a food because of the local practice of fermenting tea leaves and eating them.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)