will and intellect

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Post Reply
befriend
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

will and intellect

Post by befriend »

i would be interested to see if there is a sutta where buddha discussed the will and intellect. obviously using ones intelligence is very wholesome, as opposed to being lazy and indifferent. but would like to hear buddhas take on it. thank you in advance. metta. befriend.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
nameless
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:25 pm

Re: will and intellect

Post by nameless »

Of course using one's intelligence can be wholesome, but is it really "obvious" that it "is"? People who (successfully) commit crimes and wage wars are also using their intelligence.
befriend
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: will and intellect

Post by befriend »

thats why i said as opposed to being lazy and indifferent, intelliegence in the context of stupidity vs intellegence.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
nameless
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:25 pm

Re: will and intellect

Post by nameless »

It's not really an opposition. One can be intelligent and lazy, intelligent and indifferent.

And is stupidity unwholesome? Consider the following:
- stupidity is ill-defined. Last I heard psychologists have defined 7 different types of intelligence. What does "stupid" even mean?
- even if you do define someone as stupid, it isn't their choice to be so, so can you attribute wholesome/unwholesomeness to it?

Anyway I don't want to turn this into a me vs. you nitpicking each others arguments. Bottom line is that I feel that this idealization of intelligence (no doubt influenced by the idea that if you are intelligent you will do well in school, get a good job, be rich/powerful and therefore happy) is unhealthy and it may be wise to be cautious about such an idea.
User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: will and intellect

Post by ground »

befriend wrote:i would be interested to see if there is a sutta where buddha discussed the will and intellect.
Here we go
Staying at Savatthi... [the Blessed One said,] "What one intends, what one arranges, and what one obsesses about:[1] This is a support for the stationing of consciousness. There being a support, there is a landing [or: an establishing] of consciousness. When that consciousness lands and grows, there is the production of renewed becoming in the future. When there is the production of renewed becoming in the future, there is future birth, aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. Such is the origination of this entire mass of suffering & stress.

"If one doesn't intend and doesn't arrange, but one still obsesses [about something], this is a support for the stationing of consciousness. There being a support, there is a landing of consciousness. When that consciousness lands and grows, there is the production of renewed becoming in the future. When there is the production of renewed becoming in the future, there is future birth, aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. Such [too] is the origination of this entire mass of suffering & stress.

"But when one doesn't intend, arrange, or obsess [about anything], there is no support for the stationing of consciousness. There being no support, there is no landing of consciousness. When that consciousness doesn't land & grow, there is no production of renewed becoming in the future. When there is no production of renewed becoming in the future, there is no future birth, aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, or despair. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering & stress."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And
From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness.
...
Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Kind regards
befriend
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: will and intellect

Post by befriend »

what i mean is, what does buddha have to say about viriya, energy determination, as it applies to reasoning. buddha said we should bring about wholesome states, but what did he say about arousing ones intellect. thats all im asking, i dont understand what that other sutra means, i am sorry. to nameless. i just am interested if there is a sutra where buddha says something like having a strong intellect and good reasoning for good is a source of much benenefit something along those lines. sorry if that other sutra already said that, but i cant understand it.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: will and intellect

Post by ground »

befriend wrote:buddha said we should bring about wholesome states, ...
In essence what he taught was that unwholesome states should be abandoned. The bringing about of "wholesome states" is just an optional device.

In this vein reasoning should be abandoned - however it can be used as an optional device being mindful of the fact that consciousness (i.e. reasoning) arises from ignorance.
Therefore he also taught many kinds of reasonings, like e.g. reasonings about the ugliness of the body, reasonings about being mindful of death etc.

Kind regards
Post Reply