Recognizing the Dhamma

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Nicholas Weeks
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Recognizing the Dhamma

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

An anthology on the eight factors Buddha gave Gotami:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/stud ... izing.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The root text:
I have heard that at on one occasion the Blessed One was staying at Vesali, in the Peaked Roof Hall in the Great Forest.

Then Mahapajapati Gotami went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, stood to one side. As she was standing there she said to him: "It would be good, lord, if the Blessed One would teach me the Dhamma in brief such that, having heard the Dhamma from the Blessed One, I might dwell alone, secluded, heedful, ardent, & resolute."

"Gotami, the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead:

to passion, not to dispassion;
to being fettered, not to being unfettered;
to accumulating, not to shedding;
to self-aggrandizement, not to modesty;
to discontent, not to contentment;
to entanglement, not to seclusion;
to laziness, not to aroused persistence;
to being burdensome, not to being unburdensome':
You may definitely hold, 'This is not the Dhamma, this is not the Vinaya, this is not the Teacher's instruction.'

"As for the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead:

to dispassion, not to passion;
to being unfettered, not to being fettered;
to shedding, not to accumulating;
to modesty, not to self-aggrandizement;
to contentment, not to discontent;
to seclusion, not to entanglement;
to aroused persistence, not to laziness;
to being unburdensome, not to being burdensome':
You may definitely hold, 'This is the Dhamma, this is the Vinaya, this is the Teacher's instruction.'"

That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, Mahapajapati Gotami delighted at his words.

— AN 8.53
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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Eko Care
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Re: Recognizing the Dhamma

Post by Eko Care »

Nicholas Weeks wrote: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:46 pm "Gotami, the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead: ...
You may definitely hold, 'This is not the Dhamma, this is not the Vinaya, this is not the Teacher's instruction.'

"As for the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead: ...
You may definitely hold, 'This is the Dhamma, this is the Vinaya, this is the Teacher's instruction.'"

That is what the Blessed One said. ...
One of the ways if not the only way, to recognize "what the Abhidhamma and the Atthakatha are", is patiently comparing them with the above guidelines, I think.
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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Recognizing the Dhamma

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Here is Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation:
“Gotamī, those things of which you might know: ‘These things
lead (1) to passion, not to dispassion; (2) to bondage, not to
detachment; (3) to building up, not to dismantling; (4) to strong
desires, not to fewness of desires; (5) to non-contentment, not
to contentment; (6) to company, not to solitude; (7) to laziness,
not to the arousing of energy; (8) to being difficult to support,
not to being easy to support,’ you should definitely recognize:
‘This is not the Dhamma; this is not the discipline; this is not
the teaching of the Teacher.’

But, Gotamī, those things of which
you might know: ‘These things lead (1) to dispassion, not to passion;
(2) to detachment, not to bondage; (3) to dismantling, not
to building up; (4) to fewness of desires, not to strong desires;
(5) to contentment, not to non-contentment; (6) to solitude, not
to company; (7) to the arousing of energy, not to laziness;
(8) to being easy to support, not to being difficult to support,’
you should definitely recognize: ‘This is the Dhamma; this is
the discipline; this is the teaching of the Teacher.’”
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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Eko Care
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Re: Recognizing the Dhamma

Post by Eko Care »

Here the Blessed One has given references for checking the validity of the claims.
“Mendicants, what are the four great references?

Take a mendicant who says: ‘Reverend, I have heard and learned this in the presence of the Buddha: this is the teaching, this is the training, this is the Teacher’s instruction.’ You should neither approve nor dismiss that mendicant’s statement. Instead, you should carefully memorize those words and phrases, then check if they’re included in the discourses and found in the texts on monastic training. If they’re not included in the discourses and found in the texts on monastic training, you should draw the conclusion: ‘Clearly this is not the word of the Blessed One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha. It has been incorrectly memorized by that mendicant.’ And so you should reject it.

Take another mendicant who says: ‘Reverend, I have heard and learned this in the presence of the Buddha: this is the teaching, this is the training, this is the Teacher’s instruction.’ You should neither approve nor dismiss that mendicant’s statement. Instead, you should carefully memorize those words and phrases, then check if they’re included in the discourses and found in the texts on monastic training. If they are included in the discourses and found in the texts on monastic training, you should draw the conclusion: ‘Clearly this is the word of the Blessed One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha. It has been correctly memorized by that mendicant.’ You should remember it. This is the first great reference.

Take another mendicant who says: ‘In such-and-such monastery lives a Saṅgha with seniors and leaders. I’ve heard and learned this in the presence of that Saṅgha: this is the teaching, this is the training, this is the Teacher’s instruction.’ You should neither approve nor dismiss that mendicant’s statement. Instead, you should carefully memorize those words and phrases, then check if they’re included in the discourses or found in the texts on monastic training. If they’re not included in the discourses or found in the texts on monastic training, you should draw the conclusion: ‘Clearly this is not the word of the Blessed One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha. It has been incorrectly memorized by that Saṅgha.’ And so you should reject it.

Take another mendicant who says: ‘In such-and-such monastery lives a Saṅgha with seniors and leaders. I’ve heard and learned this in the presence of that Saṅgha: this is the teaching, this is the training, this is the Teacher’s instruction.’ You should neither approve nor dismiss that mendicant’s statement. Instead, you should carefully memorize those words and phrases, then check if they’re included in the discourses or found in the texts on monastic training. If they are included in the discourses and found in the texts on monastic training, you should draw the conclusion: ‘Clearly this is the word of the Blessed One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha. It has been correctly memorized by that Saṅgha.’ You should remember it. This is the second great reference.
The Four Great References
Here the checking is to be done with Suttas and not with one's own interpretation of Suttas, I think.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Recognizing the Dhamma

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Nicholas,
Nicholas Weeks wrote: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:46 pm ...
Aside from having shared a link, can you please explain what the discussion topic is?

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Recognizing the Dhamma

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

retrofuturist wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:44 pm Greetings Nicholas,
Nicholas Weeks wrote: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:46 pm ...
Aside from having shared a link, can you please explain what the discussion topic is?

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)
Do not know what you mean - the heading says it.
When Eko Care dug up this old, ignored thread, I added another translation of the eight elements that are a guide to know what is and what is not Dhamma.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Recognizing the Dhamma

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

Thanks Nicholas. Yes, I was mainly hoping to understand what we're here to talk about so that it wouldn't merely serve as fodder for the evangelism of others, but since it's not really defined, I'll just leave it be.

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Recognizing the Dhamma

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

retrofuturist wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:32 pm ... since it's not really defined, I'll just leave it be.

:thanks:
Metta,
Paul. :)
What is not clear about the subject? Perhaps certifying the Dhamma or authenticating or verifying?

As for other posters... I do not know.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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