Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

Hello people

I dont consider myself a buddhist but it is the only organized religion that makes sense to me and i've always thought it is a beautifull teaching and i love studying it.
But i'm not a very disciplined person and although i try to stick to some of the basics because i believe it makes me a better person, i'm far from a practising buddhist.
Ever since i was a little child i was fascinated with tattoos, when i was 16 i got my first and by the time i was 19 i had already covered quite a lot of my body in them.
Because i decorate my body with things i love, admire and/or find beautifull i decided years ago to get a buddha tattoo.

Most of my upper body was already tattooed so i thought it would be a good idea to put it on the outside of my upper leg (thigh).
I went to one of the best tattoo artists in the world and got a huge tattoo of the tian tan statue and it looked very nice.
Now i studied the basics of buddhism a little bit but i know absolutely nothing about the customs and traditions and after i got the tattoo i found out that its not neccesarily seen
as a good thing to get a buddha tattoo and below the waist it is even considered disrespectfull.
I feel so stupid for not doing proper research because i usually do and now something that was intended to be a tattoo out of respect for buddhism might be a disrespectfull thing.
Sometimes i'm an impulsive person and this action was one.

I never have the tattoo visible in public and i never travel to buddhist countries so i'm not worried about offending anybody.
What would bother me is if it is an insult to the religion itself. Now this tattoo is way too big and dark to get lasered or covered up so thats no option.
From what i understand the body under the waist is considered unpure for a buddha tattoo and it should be as high on the body as possible, preferably above the heart region.
However all this goes for tattoos in Thailand, i dont know how it is in other buddhist traditions.
My tattoo is on the outside of my thigh so its not facing my penis and its not facing the toilet seat when i take a dump so atleast that should be a plus. Maybe some of you could
shed some light on the whole buddha tattoo thing, i would appreciate it.

Peace

I would consider it a cultural expression on your part, and be at ease, continuing to be sensitive to contra-cultural contexts where offense might occur, as you have already been. Your own motive for this appreciative gesture will be important to consider, primarily.

But it's not an image of the historical Buddha, of course, so it's already a symbol as a statue. For it to cause offense simply by being in a tattoo medium is odd, to my way of thinking, but I do not have cultural values about the body in that way.

(From a doctrinal point of view, I have to say that it appears to me that there's no trouble at all.)

redcloud wrote:Hello people

I dont consider myself a buddhist but it is the only organized religion that makes sense to me and i've always thought it is a beautifull teaching and i love studying it.
But i'm not a very disciplined person and although i try to stick to some of the basics because i believe it makes me a better person, i'm far from a practising buddhist.
Ever since i was a little child i was fascinated with tattoos, when i was 16 i got my first and by the time i was 19 i had already covered quite a lot of my body in them.
Because i decorate my body with things i love, admire and/or find beautifull i decided years ago to get a buddha tattoo.

Most of my upper body was already tattooed so i thought it would be a good idea to put it on the outside of my upper leg (thigh).
I went to one of the best tattoo artists in the world and got a huge tattoo of the tian tan statue and it looked very nice.
Now i studied the basics of buddhism a little bit but i know absolutely nothing about the customs and traditions and after i got the tattoo i found out that its not neccesarily seen
as a good thing to get a buddha tattoo and below the waist it is even considered disrespectfull.
I feel so stupid for not doing proper research because i usually do and now something that was intended to be a tattoo out of respect for buddhism might be a disrespectfull thing.
Sometimes i'm an impulsive person and this action was one.

I never have the tattoo visible in public and i never travel to buddhist countries so i'm not worried about offending anybody.
What would bother me is if it is an insult to the religion itself. Now this tattoo is way too big and dark to get lasered or covered up so thats no option.
From what i understand the body under the waist is considered unpure for a buddha tattoo and it should be as high on the body as possible, preferably above the heart region.
However all this goes for tattoos in Thailand, i dont know how it is in other buddhist traditions.
My tattoo is on the outside of my thigh so its not facing my penis and its not facing the toilet seat when i take a dump so atleast that should be a plus. Maybe some of you could
shed some light on the whole buddha tattoo thing, i would appreciate it.

Peace

Hi,

I would not suggest anyone get any image of Buddha (be it statue from certain time period or interpretation) etc under the waist.

Its not just for others to criticise/ no matter if its shown or not, its very well known in Thailand, Buddha and certain deities have to be above the waist and in certain relevance to each other (for example, if there is more than one deity on your body, for obvious reasons it can't be above, say the image of Buddha.

I am personally quite against non-Buddhists getting, Buddhist tattoos, its unfortunately becoming quite a fashion statement now in Asia (hordes of Singaporeans, Malaysians and Mainland Chinese) are flocking to Thailand to get, sak yant or they are hosting over certain, Ajahn to their place of origin.

Most of these Ajahn, I don't place very highly and it seems to be a sudden increase of young Thai men, wearing, kalawat white clothes or donning a fake tiger skin (like a Lersi), learning basic, Khom Akhara (Cambodian script) and basic, mai sak skill (tattoo rod), their, wicha (inherited knowledge/magic if you want to use this term) is highly suspect.

Since, Ajahn Noo (Brahm sak yant master) who has become very famous and rich, after tattooing, Angelina Jolie, flocks of young men are joining the trade and mostly for wealth and status (2 very Khandas indeed).

I am quite old fashioned, I think if you are going to make a permanent statement of faith, it better be backed up by some knowledge and thoroughly researched before hand.

I am heavily tattoed in Thai sak yant tattoos and have often witnessed, while visiting my, Ajahn's, sam nak, foreigners (Chinese etc) coming to the sam nak and just randomly picking any design from the book, not knowing obviously what they are there for in the 1st place and then arguing about the price, how long is it going to take, due to the pain of it and then not even, paying basic respect while they are there (crying or wailing, while they are getting tattooed) and also not even bowing 3 times before leaving.

I think this can have some positive merit too, such as someone can get a tattoo and then start to research into Buddhism and then can taste the real, Buddha Dhamma for themselves, but from talking to some people over the net, a lot are more obsessed with, saiyasat (black magic) and other occult practices, which lead eventually in my opinion to very bad states of kamma and some, back fire.

Jon

redcloud wrote:What would bother me is if it is an insult to the religion itself. Now this tattoo is way too big and dark to get lasered or covered up so thats no option.

It sounds like it's too late to do anything about it. But I think it's good you recognize that this may be offensive to others. And it sounds like you have enough tattoos on your body that people are unlikely to notice that one, anyway.

Amputate? Maybe knot.
chownah

@ daverupa
Thank you

Its not just for others to criticise/ no matter if its shown or not, its very well known in Thailand, Buddha and certain deities have to be above the waist and in certain relevance to each other (for example, if there is more than one deity on your body, for obvious reasons it can't be above, say the image of Buddha.

Well i dont have any tattoos directly above the buddha. But what i dont understand is that i see these huge backpiece buddhahead tattoos where the buddha's mouth is very close to the persons butthole and thats seems to be ok, but a place like the outside upper leg is unpure? And these huge (which look very pretty btw) golden Thai buddha statues and the sigaret smoking monks seem a bit unbuddhist (i'm not judging the Thai here, i respect them a lot and their knowlegde goes way way further than mine, so what do i know)
But i wonder if these tattoo rules only apply in Thailand.
Since i cant stand hot weather i will probably never go to Thailand and if i did i wont be walking the street in my underware so people feeling insulted by my tattoo is not the issue anyway.
What i want to know is if its an insult to the buddha itself. My intentions of getting the tattoo weren not bad and the spot was choosen out of ignorance on my side so hopefully thats taken into account too. Knowing what i know now i probably would never get a buddhist tattoo. I did a lot op stupid things in the past but i'm learning.
I wonder how do they view it in other traditional tattoo countries like for example Japan, cant find anything about that.

I am heavily tattoed in Thai sak yant tattoos

Weren't you worried about hygene? I've seen how they make these tattoos, the same needle is used on dozens of different people only to be cleaned with a tissue with alcohol after eacht session. They use the same ink bottle with blood from different people coming back in the bottle. Looks like an easy way to get a dissease.

I think this can have some positive merit too, such as someone can get a tattoo and then start to research into Buddhism and then can taste the real, Buddha Dhamma for themselves

Yeah i've thought about this too, i should turn this mistake into something positive by practising more buddhism in my everyday life. Some things will be difficult for me, i'm a bit superficial sometimes, i like nice clothes, hot women, eating meat, luxury items etc.
I've already stopped smoking weed and i never drink alcohol but i do take LSD and mushrooms every now and then because i feel its good for my soul, is this accepted in buddhism btw?

The most important thing is to follow the 5 precepts

meat, women, tattoos, luxury-items ect - are debatable but the 5 precepts are the core

but i can say that all drugs are bad and will stop your advancement in the path and will not only stop it but will make you go "back" in the "path" - Even if you dont notice it

1. Panatipata veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from destroying living creatures.
2. Adinnadana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from taking that which is not given.
3. Kamesu micchacara veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct.
4. Musavada veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from incorrect speech.
5. Suramerayamajja pamadatthana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami
I undertake the precept to refrain from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness.

redcloud wrote:I've already stopped smoking weed and i never drink alcohol but i do take LSD and mushrooms every now and then because i feel its good for my soul, is this accepted in buddhism btw?

No. The fifth precept is to refrain from intoxicants that cause heedlessness.

You can read a little more about this and the other four precepts here.

Here is a picture of the tattoo, i'm thinking of maybe changing it into something like this http://ubpost.mongolnews.mn/wp-content/ ... AEKBda.jpg

Or i could change it into a Tarra or something, is a tarra tattoo under the waist considered (less) disrespectfull?

Any ideas in what eastern figure i could change it into with a few modifications?

redcloud wrote:@ daverupa
Thank you

Its not just for others to criticise/ no matter if its shown or not, its very well known in Thailand, Buddha and certain deities have to be above the waist and in certain relevance to each other (for example, if there is more than one deity on your body, for obvious reasons it can't be above, say the image of Buddha.

Well i dont have any tattoos directly above the buddha. But what i dont understand is that i see these huge backpiece buddhahead tattoos where the buddha's mouth is very close to the persons butthole and thats seems to be ok, but a place like the outside upper leg is unpure? And these huge (which look very pretty btw) golden Thai buddha statues and the sigaret smoking monks seem a bit unbuddhist (i'm not judging the Thai here, i respect them a lot and their knowlegde goes way way further than mine, so what do i know)
But i wonder if these tattoo rules only apply in Thailand.
Since i cant stand hot weather i will probably never go to Thailand and if i did i wont be walking the street in my underware so people feeling insulted by my tattoo is not the issue anyway.
What i want to know is if its an insult to the buddha itself. My intentions of getting the tattoo weren not bad and the spot was choosen out of ignorance on my side so hopefully thats taken into account too. Knowing what i know now i probably would never get a buddhist tattoo. I did a lot op stupid things in the past but i'm learning.
I wonder how do they view it in other traditional tattoo countries like for example Japan, cant find anything about that.

I am heavily tattooed in Thai sak yant tattoos

Weren't you worried about hygene? I've seen how they make these tattoos, the same needle is used on dozens of different people only to be cleaned with a tissue with alcohol after eacht session. They use the same ink bottle with blood from different people coming back in the bottle. Looks like an easy way to get a dissease.

I think this can have some positive merit too, such as someone can get a tattoo and then start to research into Buddhism and then can taste the real, Buddha Dhamma for themselves

Yeah i've thought about this too, i should turn this mistake into something positive by practising more buddhism in my everyday life. Some things will be difficult for me, i'm a bit superficial sometimes, i like nice clothes, hot women, eating meat, luxury items etc.
I've already stopped smoking weed and i never drink alcohol but i do take LSD and mushrooms every now and then because i feel its good for my soul, is this accepted in buddhism btw?

Hi,

Buddha images, no matter what type (type of statue, face, or 4 headed Buddha etc etc) are not to be below the waist at all.

As for Buddha images being cast out of certain mediums, that is really mostly due to what time period they were created and really does not have any bad kammic effects so to speak.

As for monks smoking I don't agree with it personally, but I don't have a massive problem with it, as long as their habit does not put stress on the Sangha to supply him cigarettes or causes major health problems to be dealt with.

I am from NZ (Wellington to be exact) and it is mostly cold here, so when I am in Thailand, I just wear shorts and jandals, the villagers, don't have a problem with my tattoos if anything they like them as they were well planned out and done by a good, Ajahn, so I often get asked to get photographed etc. Monks at the temples I visit, like to see them and we sit, talk about, sak-yant, katha and yantra, its a common bond.

As for 5 precepts and living in a modern environment, I don't think this is a bad thing or too much of a obstruction as long as you are clear about them.

You dont have to give up meat, just refrain from killing animals to eat (by from supermarket is ok) as for people who decide they want to be vegetarian, thats their choice. I like nice stuff like most people, but I have been through certain periods of my life, when even bare necessities, were not easy to maintain, so if I have or not have, makes no difference to me.

For women, this is not complicated, just don't sleep with married women or have affair, if you are single and like to have GF, thats fine, just don't get too carried away, lust is one of the most powerful motivating forces, so try and remember that.

Try and stay away from intoxicants as much as you can as it is easy to lose self control and become an excess as well as they are not conducive to your practice. I don't have a problem with weed, but I personally dont smoke it any more, I did when I was young.

LSD and other psychoactive compounds are very interesting, but you never know what you are ingesting, remember its not coming from a laboratory and its not dosed and I don't think it is that safe for some people as psychologically they just can't handle it/MDMA is a much more safer compound in my opinion (not saying I condone the consumption of either).

If you want to "taste the mind" best you start out practice, anapanasati (mindfullness of breathing) and build basis for Samadhi meditation, I had a lot of success with this when I was younger and had dropped into a few, Jhana states them, indescribably wonderful.

As for hygiene with Thai tattoo (sak-yant) I agree, there is a lot of sam nak's that are not following proper hygiene procedures (new needles every patient, new ink wells, gloves and using tissues). So you need to know all of this before hand.

If anyone wants to go and get, sak-yant, I know of which masters, use proper hygiene methods etc, though I won't vouch for anyone I wont know.

I think some of the notion are that "Buddha will protect" against infection. I dont believe in this, I cant take the risks, I got a family to feed,etc.

Jon

redcloud wrote:.

I never have the tattoo visible in public and i never travel to buddhist countries so i'm not worried about offending anybody.
What would bother me is if it is an insult to the religion itself. Now this tattoo is way too big and dark to get lasered or covered up so thats no option.
. . .
However all this goes for tattoos in Thailand, i dont know how it is in other buddhist traditions.
My tattoo is on the outside of my thigh so its not facing my penis and its not facing the toilet seat when i take a dump so atleast that should be a plus. Maybe some of you could
shed some light on the whole buddha tattoo thing, i would appreciate it.

Peace

Thanks for the juicy details, we really needed those.

Seriously, "the religion" doesn't care. Only people care. As long as you don't visit places where it is not welcomed by people, you can wear the Buddha tattoo on whatever orifice you prefer.

Buddha images, no matter what type (type of statue, face, or 4 headed Buddha etc etc) are not to be below the waist at all.

Hmmm so putting some adjustments in it to make it some other buddhist related being like a buddhavista or something will not help? I think i'd better let it be like it is then.

As for monks smoking I don't agree with it personally, but I don't have a massive problem with it, as long as their habit does not put stress on the Sangha to supply him cigarettes or causes major health problems to be dealt with.

According to scientists cigarettes cause enormous healt problems, they made a list and cigarettes were on top together with crack, cocaine, meth, heroin etc. They've killed millions of people but still are legal while the least harmfull drugs are ofton illegal.
Psychedelics were on the very bottom of the list causing very little health issues.

LSD and other psychoactive compounds are very interesting, but you never know what you are ingesting, remember its not coming from a laboratory and its not dosed and I don't think it is that safe for some people as psychologically they just can't handle it/MDMA is a much more safer compound in my opinion (not saying I condone the consumption of either).

Actually LSD does come from (illegal) labs and you have to be a good chemist with a good lab to make quality. The LSD i buy is very pure and i know exactly how much i dose. I can handle it pretty good, also high doses. To me set and setting means everything and it is almost impossible to get a bad trip if you use it wisely and dont overdo it. I dont feel psychedelics give me heedlessness, actually i feel very motivated to do good things in life after i've taken them. Unfortunately that feeling ofton fades within a few days.
MDMA on the other hand is pure poison for me. The hangover lasts for days and are horrible and i just feel its very bad for my body. The effect are lovely though but not worth it. A gram of MDMA can kill you but you can take a thousand hits of LSD and you'll live, its practically impossible to overdose on it so that says something.
I've smoked weed everyday for 18 years and i can say i was very addicted to it and it made me very lazy and unmotivated, sometimes even paranoia. Thank god i'm off it, its not as innocent as everybody says. I'm not against it either and it should be legalized because its a very usefull plant that can cure many diseases if used in the right way. Like cannabis oil.
Psychedelics are the only substances that i still use ocasionally because i feel they are good for me and they give me no hangover.

Seriously, "the religion" doesn't care. Only people care. As long as you don't visit places where it is not welcomed by people, you can wear the Buddha tattoo on whatever orifice you prefer.

Well if thats the case and i dont get any bad karma from it i'll just leave the tattoo like it is.

No need to rationalize your psychedelic drug use to anyone. If you do them, you do them. Just know that they aren't part of the Buddhist path in Theravada or Mahayana.

I cant find the quote but their used to be a member here that used a drug (dont want to advertise but not weed,LSD,mushroom ) that he thought helped him reach jhana - he said that all drugs are bad except this drug and that he uses it safely ect

At the end he said he was mistaken (not because of pressure) - and that he didnt reach jhana he just thought he did and he stopped using this drug

i wonder if you will one day regret using LSD -

I dont feel psychedelics give me heedlessness, actually i feel very motivated to do good things in life after i've taken them.

the thing is that this is exactly what others said on this forum about other drugs like weed for instance - and the same with them - because i didnt try LSD i dont want to say your wrong i always think "what if his right?" BUT the bigger chance is that it is an unwholesome act which wil cause bad results even if you dont notice them - if i would ask you some years ago about "weed" you would also find some explanation on why its good for you and how it doesnt have a bad side

redcloud wrote:

Buddha images, no matter what type (type of statue, face, or 4 headed Buddha etc etc) are not to be below the waist at all.

Hmmm so putting some adjustments in it to make it some other buddhist related being like a buddhavista or something will not help? I think i'd better let it be like it is then.

As for monks smoking I don't agree with it personally, but I don't have a massive problem with it, as long as their habit does not put stress on the Sangha to supply him cigarettes or causes major health problems to be dealt with.

According to scientists cigarettes cause enormous healt problems, they made a list and cigarettes were on top together with crack, cocaine, meth, heroin etc. They've killed millions of people but still are legal while the least harmfull drugs are ofton illegal.
Psychedelics were on the very bottom of the list causing very little health issues.

LSD and other psychoactive compounds are very interesting, but you never know what you are ingesting, remember its not coming from a laboratory and its not dosed and I don't think it is that safe for some people as psychologically they just can't handle it/MDMA is a much more safer compound in my opinion (not saying I condone the consumption of either).

Actually LSD does come from (illegal) labs and you have to be a good chemist with a good lab to make quality. The LSD i buy is very pure and i know exactly how much i dose. I can handle it pretty good, also high doses. To me set and setting means everything and it is almost impossible to get a bad trip if you use it wisely and dont overdo it. I dont feel psychedelics give me heedlessness, actually i feel very motivated to do good things in life after i've taken them. Unfortunately that feeling ofton fades within a few days.
MDMA on the other hand is pure poison for me. The hangover lasts for days and are horrible and i just feel its very bad for my body. The effect are lovely though but not worth it. A gram of MDMA can kill you but you can take a thousand hits of LSD and you'll live, its practically impossible to overdose on it so that says something.
I've smoked weed everyday for 18 years and i can say i was very addicted to it and it made me very lazy and unmotivated, sometimes even paranoia. Thank god i'm off it, its not as innocent as everybody says. I'm not against it either and it should be legalized because its a very usefull plant that can cure many diseases if used in the right way. Like cannabis oil.
Psychedelics are the only substances that i still use ocasionally because i feel they are good for me and they give me no hangover.

Seriously, "the religion" doesn't care. Only people care. As long as you don't visit places where it is not welcomed by people, you can wear the Buddha tattoo on whatever orifice you prefer.

Well if thats the case and i dont get any bad karma from it i'll just leave the tattoo like it is.

I tell you a true story of an old friend of mine, lets call him "10 dragons" as that was his Chinese name (no, he is not Chinese, but followed Taoism closely and did Kung Fu).

I first met him when I was 18 years old, I had gotten a little bored of the martial arts I was studying at the time and had got a contact to study, Chinese Kung Fu, which I had always had a interest for.

I met him and I got the first opinion I got of him, was that he was quite successful, he drove a nice car, dressed tidy and spoke well and seemed to exude a certain air of confidence about him.

As for his martial art ability, he was very good, very athletic, could jump high and fall into full splits without a warm-up and his movements were very sharp, so I could see that he practiced very hard and as a fellow practitioner that gained with me respect.

Without dragging this on and on, I will get to my friends downfall. He got into LSD (Fat Freddies Cat's) which were very powerful, one a 1/2 you would be strongly hallucinating and sweating your ring out, I don't recall them being that pleasant LOL.

He started to get get into these tabs nothing short of addictive, he would rather prefer to be in an altered state, than in reality and we often talked about "levels" or stages of consciousness we experienced. He due to his background in both Asian and Western Occult traditions, would use "candle" Kasina, such as LK Kop from Wat Salika (famous monk from Thailand) in these states of he would visit graveyards etc.

He had left his girlfriend, stolen money, and other assets and was living in his ute (which he had also stolen from her).

It got so bad, that at the bar we used to drink in, we could smell him as soon as he walked in off the Street and one day, he wanted to ask my honest opinion about a hygiene problem he was dealing with, which was due to him not washing his feet, or maybe changing his socks, for how many weeks/months (no, I am not joking). He revealed to me a terrible infection in where his socks, basically had fused to his feet, to which I told him to get medical attention ASAP. The LSD had also caused his teeth to rot.

I had at some point become estranged from my friend, most probably due to choice and I had started to distance myself from these type of people.

I had heard later on he had got involved into meth amphetamine and had developed full blown paranoia and not just when he was on it or coming off it, he had basically destroyed his mind and he was seen to sit in a room talking to himself or start to ring people up from his past and abuse them that they were "reading his mind" or telepathically influencing him. He could hear people talking to him through the TV, radio etc.

To some this might sound funny, but as this is a real case of someone's demise, you can't but feel sad, that someone who's life seemed so promising went right down the toilet.

So bottom line is, drugs are bad, they destroy your mind and lead you into the abyss, they cant offer any type of real enlightenment, just illusion.

Jon