Craving = Personality ?

[2600htz]

In buddhism the word "Craving", its often translated as thirst, or desire.

But when i read a sutta like this one i found (AN 4.199):

""And which are the 18 craving-verbalizations dependent on what is internal? There being 'I am,' there comes to be 'I am here,' there comes to be 'I am like this' ... 'I am otherwise' ... 'I am bad' ... 'I am good' ... 'I might be' ... 'I might be here' ... 'I might be like this' ... 'I might be otherwise' ... 'May I be' ... 'May I be here' ... 'May I be like this' ... 'May I be otherwise' ... 'I will be' ... 'I will be here' ... 'I will be like this' ... 'I will be otherwise.' These are the 18 craving-verbalizations dependent on what is internal."

Craving its showed more like "personality", or "identity" ( I am bad, i am fat, i am a buddhist, i am introverted, i am extroverted, im funny, im not funny, etc ).

Is it both?, i ask because even while the word could mean all of the terms, i find that its kind of a big deal, because if u hear that the cause of suffering is "desire", u take one practice, but if u take that the cause of suffering is "who you think u are", it leads other way.


Thanks!.

[Sylvester]

My guess is that the craving spoken of here would be the latent tendency to conceit. According to SN12.38, anusayas would form part of the sankharas/formations that drive rebecoming. There is no rebecoming if there is no bhava, which is itself dependant on clinging. That in turn depends on craving.

[chownah]

2600htz,
Note that this precedes what you have posted from the sutta:
"And which craving is the ensnarer that has flowed along, spread out, and caught hold, with which this world is smothered & enveloped like a tangled skein, a knotted ball of string, like matted rushes and reeds, and does not go beyond transmigration, beyond the planes of deprivation, woe, & bad destinations?"

The term "which craving" indicates that there are other cravings but that this sutta is focusing on some particular ones. Also, you might note that just about any craving can be expressed in terms of those presented in the sutta. For example if an addict is suffering from withdrawal symptoms and is craving a drug it can be expressed as "May I be otherwise" which is on the list you presented...in other words, craving is a function of self which shows how important the buddha's lessons to have no doctrine of self are so important.
chownah

[Goofaholix]

""And which are the 18 craving-verbalizations dependent on what is internal? There being 'I am,' there comes to be 'I am here,' there comes to be 'I am like this' ... 'I am otherwise' ... 'I am bad' ... 'I am good' ... 'I might be' ... 'I might be here' ... 'I might be like this' ... 'I might be otherwise' ... 'May I be' ... 'May I be here' ... 'May I be like this' ... 'May I be otherwise' ... 'I will be' ... 'I will be here' ... 'I will be like this' ... 'I will be otherwise.' These are the 18 craving-verbalizations dependent on what is internal."

This passage appears to be talking about bhava tanha, usually translated as becoming, or craving to exist, craving to be.

So it's the opposite of what you've suggested. It's not a matter of "I crave therefore I am", it's a matter of craving to be a self, craving a future self and have an ongoing existence and identity.

[SarathW]

Hi 2600htz
You said:
- Craving its showed more like "personality", or "identity"

I would say:
-Ignorance is more like "personality" or "identity".

They you might say:

- Then wisdom could be more like personality" or "identity"

Then I would say:
Wisdom is better than ignorance!
===============
That's all I can say at this stage.

[santa100]

Craving its showed more like "personality", or "identity" ( I am bad, i am fat, i am a buddhist, i am introverted, i am extroverted, im funny, im not funny, etc ).

Notice Ven. Thanissaro's brief summary of the sutta:

The Buddha enumerates the many kinds of tangled thoughts experienced by a mind not yet free of craving.

So, instead of equating craving to identity view, identity view is a state from a mind that is not yet free from craving (a causal relationship). In the 12 links of Dependent Origination, Craving is the condition for the arising of Clinging. And self-identity is one kind of Clinging. An alternative translation by Ven. Bodhi:

And what are the eighteen currents of craving related to the internal? When there is [the notion] ‘I am,’ there are [the notions] ‘I am thus,’ ‘I am just so,’ ‘I am otherwise,’ ‘I am lasting,’ ‘I am evanescent,’ ‘I may be,’ ‘I may be thus,’ ‘I may be just so,’ ‘I may be otherwise,’ ‘May I be,’ ‘May I be thus,’ ‘May I be just so,’ ‘May I be otherwise,’ ‘I shall be,’ ‘I shall be thus,’ ‘I shall be just so,’ ‘I shall be otherwise.’ These are the eighteen currents of craving related to the internal"

[2600htz]

Thank you all for the answers .