supernormal powers

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Dhammabodhi
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Re: supernormal powers

Post by Dhammabodhi »

Continuing in the same train of experiences about seemingly supernormal (not supernatural) powers:

I know a guy who is a layman but he and his family are closely associated with many Buddhist teachers of high repute- Anagarika Munindraji, Bana Bhante, Dipa Ma etc. - his own grandfather established the International Meditation Centre in Bodh Gaya (one of the oldest meditation centres there). He claimed he knew me in a past life- something that I have no means to say is right or not (yet!). Anyway, I had an experience with him much like Sam Vara's experience with the old venerable. As Sam Vara puts it- "make of it what you will".

I was going to meet him, but before I could do that I had a call from my wife- we had a somewhat heated argument. After I ended the call I went to see him, after a while he asked me out of the blue: "Is everything OK with your wife?" ( I paraphrase). He said he had spontaneously had the thought about asking about my wife- even though we had only met once before for a short time and I don't remember telling him that I was married.

A second, personal experience- again, make of it what you will.

Near the end of a month-long retreat at a monastery, I was meditating in my room early in the morning (around 5). It was dark out and I was not quite fully awake. Suddenly I heard a distinct sound of someone crying near the door of my room. The first thought that came to my mind was- "must be a kid"- but then I remembered that there are no kids in the monastery and certainly no kid will be roaming about at 5 in the morning. Then it dawned on me that it might be a spirit-being- so assuming that I proceeded to give it/her/him Metta and Karuna. Later some of the residents of the monastery said it is nothing abnormal- it was probably a Yakkha.

Make of it what you will. :rolleye:
"Take rest, take rest."-S.N.Goenka
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Re: supernormal powers

Post by form »

Dhammabodhi wrote:Continuing in the same train of experiences about seemingly supernormal (not supernatural) powers:

I know a guy who is a layman but he and his family are closely associated with many Buddhist teachers of high repute- Anagarika Munindraji, Bana Bhante, Dipa Ma etc. - his own grandfather established the International Meditation Centre in Bodh Gaya (one of the oldest meditation centres there). He claimed he knew me in a past life- something that I have no means to say is right or not (yet!). Anyway, I had an experience with him much like Sam Vara's experience with the old venerable. As Sam Vara puts it- "make of it what you will".

I was going to meet him, but before I could do that I had a call from my wife- we had a somewhat heated argument. After I ended the call I went to see him, after a while he asked me out of the blue: "Is everything OK with your wife?" ( I paraphrase). He said he had spontaneously had the thought about asking about my wife- even though we had only met once before for a short time and I don't remember telling him that I was married.

A second, personal experience- again, make of it what you will.

Near the end of a month-long retreat at a monastery, I was meditating in my room early in the morning (around 5). It was dark out and I was not quite fully awake. Suddenly I heard a distinct sound of someone crying near the door of my room. The first thought that came to my mind was- "must be a kid"- but then I remembered that there are no kids in the monastery and certainly no kid will be roaming about at 5 in the morning. Then it dawned on me that it might be a spirit-being- so assuming that I proceeded to give it/her/him Metta and Karuna. Later some of the residents of the monastery said it is nothing abnormal- it was probably a Yakkha.

Make of it what you will. :rolleye:
What country is this at?
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Dhammabodhi
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Re: supernormal powers

Post by Dhammabodhi »

First one is in India and second one in Thailand- though the location is not important.

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Re: supernormal powers

Post by form »

Dhammabodhi wrote:First one is in India and second one in Thailand- though the location is not important.

:anjali:
Important cos I need to consider the culture and the setting when I read your stories.
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Re: supernormal powers

Post by Dhammabodhi »

My "stories" did not depend on culture and setting but only my personal experiences. Only interpretations and one's subsequent analysis of the experiences will.

And about interpretations, there's this famous saying :quote: : "Make of it..."
:anjali:
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Re: supernormal powers

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw »

I may have had a couple encounters with non-human beings, both times seemngly tried to scare me away from the place i was training at. Making growling sounds like a wolf or similar behind me as im walking thru the forest and producing scary visions. Inb4 real animal, virtually no predators around to make such noises and both times happened at the same place with many months in between.
Ive had other experiences but i dont think its worth sharkng and these two episodes are more interesting ones. Basicly i was seeing and hearing scary things when trying to meditate intensively.
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Re: supernormal powers

Post by form »

R1111 wrote:I may have had a couple encounters with non-human beings, both times seemngly tried to scare me away from the place i was training at. Making growling sounds like a wolf or similar behind me as im walking thru the forest and producing scary visions. Inb4 real animal, virtually no predators around to make such noises and both times happened at the same place with many months in between.
Ive had other experiences but i dont think its worth sharkng and these two episodes are more interesting ones. Basicly i was seeing and hearing scary things when trying to meditate intensively.
Tell us in more details.
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Re: supernormal powers

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw »

Well take it fwiw this are my personal beliefs,
Ever since meditative attainment i seem to occasionally know intuitively about things that happen away from me but will affect me as stress. One time i saw a dream where i was told i was going to crash, next day i lose consciousness. Several times ive known a partner is cheating as they do it, its like next day i know what has happened and its not a surprise, its accuracy is rediculous. When i meditate alot i feel intuitively that i should do this or that, being drawn to a specific book ie for no apparent reason which turns out to be exactly what i looked for.

In regards to the first post the two experiences happened at a new monastery. After meditating and laying in bed i felt someone grab me and drag me downstairs, when i noted fear, panic and feelings i was let go. The Abbot asked me about it and started to chant, as he chanted a woman with long black hair ran out of the room yellng "i hate buddhism, i hate this meditation thing ". This is where i gained normal consciousness as if nfothing happened. I took refuge i The Triple Gem and tried to sleep. Almost immediately same thing happens, im grabbed by someone very strong but i established mindfulnes right away and gained normal consciousness but found the leg that was grabbed still lifted up. Annoyed at this point i just went to sleep and nothing else happened that night.

I have a feeling that all this weirdness is just increasing as i keep training meditation. Its definitely somewhat uncomfortable and is kind of forcing one to become a weird person who alks about and deals with supernatural experiences and there is no way to tell if its going to become more intensified and how but ive kind of come to accept it now.
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Re: supernormal powers

Post by pink_trike »

R1111 wrote:Well take it fwiw this are my personal beliefs,
Ever since meditative attainment i seem to occasionally know intuitively about things that happen away from me but will affect me as stress. One time i saw a dream where i was told i was going to crash, next day i lose consciousness. Several times ive known a partner is cheating as they do it, its like next day i know what has happened and its not a surprise, its accuracy is rediculous. When i meditate alot i feel intuitively that i should do this or that, being drawn to a specific book ie for no apparent reason which turns out to be exactly what i looked for.

In regards to the first post the two experiences happened at a new monastery. After meditating and laying in bed i felt someone grab me and drag me downstairs, when i noted fear, panic and feelings i was let go. The Abbot asked me about it and started to chant, as he chanted a woman with long black hair ran out of the room yellng "i hate buddhism, i hate this meditation thing ". This is where i gained normal consciousness as if nfothing happened. I took refuge i The Triple Gem and tried to sleep. Almost immediately same thing happens, im grabbed by someone very strong but i established mindfulnes right away and gained normal consciousness but found the leg that was grabbed still lifted up. Annoyed at this point i just went to sleep and nothing else happened that night.

I have a feeling that all this weirdness is just increasing as i keep training meditation. Its definitely somewhat uncomfortable and is kind of forcing one to become a weird person who alks about and deals with supernatural experiences and there is no way to tell if its going to become more intensified and how but ive kind of come to accept it now.
You should discuss these experiences with an extensively and traditionally trained teacher who can explain the mechanics of mind that give rise to these hallucinatory illusions.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
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Dhammabodhi
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Re: supernormal powers

Post by Dhammabodhi »

This video reminded me of R111's experience with the leg-grabbing spirit. I make no claims of the veracity of the video! :popcorn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxVr5kue14A



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Re: supernormal powers

Post by dylanj »

R1111 wrote:As i understand it based on the Tipitaka, Visudhimagga and subjective personal experience, as training progresses the meditator is more or less becoming "paranormal" progressively. The paranormal factor will be a range of unordinary experiences, ranging from increased lucidity, clairvoyance and visions to developing godlike magical abilities.
As i understand it, mind needs to be quite well concentrated to experience any sort of "powers" or supernatural stuff, so supressing hindrances and developing Jhanas is how one should train.

I think some abilities can manifest very early if mind is relatively pure, however texts indicate that to get abilities of flying and walking thru walls etc one needs some level of mastery of Arupa (Formless) Jhanas so it is no trivial matter at all, not even all Arahants will have attained these Formless Jhanas let alone mastery.
None of this is incorrect, but the iddhi are worldly phenomena that putthhujjana can attain (e.g. Devadatta)...so while it is not easy it also does not require a pure mind, necessarily
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
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Re: supernormal powers

Post by dylanj »

Aloka wrote:.

In "The Authenticity of the Early Buddhist Texts" by Bhikkhus Sujato and Brahamali, in the section "Character of the Early Buddhist Texts" on page 73, it says:
The EBT's are generally realistic and restrained in their portrayal of the Buddha and his environment, and the details do not seem unreasonable for what we know of the historical period and geographical area. For instance, the Buddha is rarely portrayed as displaying supernormal powers, and when he is they often have the hallmarks of being later insertions.(8)

Non- EBT's, by contrast, are often florid and full of supernormal phenomena. This is true for the entire Buddhist tradition, but especially so for the Mahāyāna Sūtras.

http://ocbs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015 ... ticity.pdf
:anjali:
This is a very empty statement on their part. I think it is fairly concerning that people in a position of authority would make it, actually.
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
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Re: supernormal powers

Post by dylanj »

Dhammanando wrote:
SarathW wrote:It is important to not that the term supernormal powers is a wrong term.
They are just normal but for run off the mill person it appears super normal.
In a Buddhist context the wrong term would be "supernatural", for iddhis, abhiññās and vijjās are conceived as the natural products of certain kinds of mind-development, as opposed to, say, divine gifts.

As for "supernormal", this would be the right term to use in a Buddhist context, for the normal average person does not have these cognitive capacities. Hence the description of them as uttarimanussadhammā, "dhammas exceeding the [merely] human".

See the discussion in chapter IX of Jayatilleke’s Early Buddhist Theory of Knowledge.
I very much agree Bhante. Supernatural in any sense in the context of Buddhism is wrong, the Dhamma as I understand it seems like an assertion of natural law. I do not see a problem with 'supernormal'.
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
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Re: supernormal powers

Post by dylanj »

Luca123 wrote:I am always quite skeptical about claims of "supernatural powers" from wherever they come.
Where by "supernatural powers" I refer to the ability of people to be able to read minds, levitate, .. and everything that defies the ordinary laws of physics
The reason is quite simple: supernatural powers are quite easily provable and there are hundreds if not thousands of professors and engineers that would be glad to witness such a demonstration.
I think this is a bad reason for a reason that is quite simple: why would someone who had attained supernatural powers & meditative concentration of mind care at all what anyone thinks of it?
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
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Re: supernormal powers

Post by dylanj »

I 'knew', intuitively, that my partner was going to die early thus cutting off our relationship & when he had died but no evidence of such had yet appeared other than him being missing I knew it had happened.
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
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