Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
SarathW
Posts: 16974
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

Post by SarathW »

Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

According to the following Sutta Sakkaya Ditthi is not the self view.
It is taking this existence or five aggregate as pleasurable.
The summary of the sutta.
Please note that the English translation appears to be incorrect hence refer to Pali Sutta.


Taking:
Anicca as Nicca : wrong view ie: Mittchaditthi
Dukkha as Adhukha: Sakkayaditthi
Anatta as Atta: Attanuditthi

As per

http://awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/2S ... ggo-e.html
Last edited by SarathW on Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
Posts: 16974
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

Post by SarathW »

34. 16. 10. (165) Micchādiṭṭhi - Wrong View

At one time the Blessed One lived in Jīvaka’s mango orchard in Rajagaha.

Then a certain monk approached the Blessed One, worshipped and sat on a side.

Sitting on a side that monk said to the Blessed One: “Venerable sir, knowing how and seeing how does wrong view get dispelled?”

4-9. “Monk, by knowing and seeing impermanence in the eye wrong view gets dispelled Monk, by knowing and seeing impermanence in forms, eye-consciousness, eye-contact and whatever feelings pleasant, unpleasant or neither unpleasant nor pleasant born of eye-contact, wrong view gets dispelled. Repeat for ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind.

“Monk, knowing and seeing thus wrong view gets dispelled.”

34. 16. 11. (166) Sakkāya - Self View

At one time the Blessed One lived in Jīvaka’s mango orchard in Rajagaha.

Then a certain monk approached the Blessed One, worshipped and sat on a side.

Sitting on a side that monk said to the Blessed One: “Venerable sir, knowing how and seeing how does the self view get dispelled?”

4-9. “Monk, by knowing and seeing unpleasantness, in the eye self view gets dispelled Monk, by knowing and seeing unpleasantness in forms, eye-consciousness, eye-contact and whatever feelings pleasant, unpleasant or neither unpleasant nor pleasant born of eye-contact, self view gets dispelled. Repeat for ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind

“Monk, knowing and seeing thus self view gets dispelled.”

34. 16. 12. (167) Attāno - View followed by self

At Sāvaṭṭhi.

Then a certain monk approached the Blessed One, worshipped and sat on a side.

Sitting on a side that monk said to the Blessed One: “Venerable sir, knowing how and seeing how does the view following the self get dispelled?”

4-9. “Monk, by knowing and seeing impermanence in the eye, the view following self gets dispelled Monk, by knowing and seeing impermanence in forms, eye-consciousness, eye-contact and whatever feelings pleasant, unpleasant or neither unpleasant nor pleasant born of eye-contact, the view following self gets dispelled.* Repeat for ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind.

“Monk, knowing and seeing thus, the view following self gets dispelled.”
http://awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/2S ... go-e.html1
Last edited by SarathW on Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
Posts: 16974
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

Post by SarathW »

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
sentinel
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

Post by sentinel »

Is it not sakkaya ditthi refers to
thinking the body as myself .
I am the physical body !
User avatar
Zom
Posts: 2641
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:38 pm
Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
Contact:

Re: Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

Post by Zom »

Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!
No, it is.
SarathW
Posts: 16974
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

Post by SarathW »

No, it is.
Can you give some sutta reference?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 11911
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:54 pm Can you give some sutta reference?
MN 44
Pañca kho ime, āvuso visākha, upādā­nak­khan­dhā sakkāyo vutto bhagavatā, seyyathidaṃ— rūpupā­dā­nak­khan­dho vedanupā­dā­nak­khan­dho, saññu­pādā­nak­khan­dho, saṅ­khā­ru­pādā­nak­khan­dho, viñ­ñāṇupā­dā­nak­khan­dho. Ime kho, āvuso visākha, pañcu­pādā­nak­khan­dhā sakkāyo vutto bhagavatā”ti.

There are these five clung-to-aggregates, friend Visakha: form as a clung-to-aggregate, feeling as a clung-to-aggregate, perception as a clung-to-aggregate, fabrications as a clung-to-aggregate, consciousness as a clung-to-aggregate. These five clung-to-aggregates are the self-identification described by the Blessed One.

MN 44
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
SarathW
Posts: 16974
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

Post by SarathW »

sakkāyo
What I am saying is "self identification or self-view" is the wrong translation for the pali word "Sakkayo"
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
sentinel
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

Post by sentinel »

DooDoot wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:55 am
SarathW wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:54 pm Can you give some sutta reference?
MN 44
Pañca kho ime, āvuso visākha, upādā­nak­khan­dhā sakkāyo vutto bhagavatā, seyyathidaṃ— rūpupā­dā­nak­khan­dho vedanupā­dā­nak­khan­dho, saññu­pādā­nak­khan­dho, saṅ­khā­ru­pādā­nak­khan­dho, viñ­ñāṇupā­dā­nak­khan­dho. Ime kho, āvuso visākha, pañcu­pādā­nak­khan­dhā sakkāyo vutto bhagavatā”ti.

There are these five clung-to-aggregates, friend Visakha: form as a clung-to-aggregate, feeling as a clung-to-aggregate, perception as a clung-to-aggregate, fabrications as a clung-to-aggregate, consciousness as a clung-to-aggregate. These five clung-to-aggregates are the self-identification described by the Blessed One.

MN 44

Below is MN44 translation from sutta central :

Q1. Embodiment
“ ‘Embodiment, embodiment,’ is said, Noble Lady. What, Noble Lady, is said to be embodiment by the Gracious One?”

“These five constituents (of mind and body) that provide fuel for attachment, friend Visākha, are said to be embodiment by the Gracious One, as follows:

Sakkayo means embodiment .
SarathW
Posts: 16974
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

Post by SarathW »

Sakkayo means embodiment
Embodiment of what?

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... embodiment
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
sentinel
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

Post by sentinel »

the form constituent that provides fuel for attachment, the feelings constituent that provides fuel for attachment, the perceptions constituent that provides fuel for attachment, the (mental) processes constituent that provides fuel for attachment, the consciousness constituent that provides fuel for attachment.

These are the five constituents (of mind and body) that provide fuel for attachment, friend Visākha, that are said to be embodiment by the Gracious One.”
SarathW
Posts: 16974
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

Post by SarathW »

What is the meaning of the word "Embodiment"?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 11911
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

Post by DooDoot »

James Tan wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:25 amBelow is MN44 translation from sutta central :
The translation (by Ānandajoti Bhikkhu) is not particularly relevant. What is relevant is the meaning found in the whole passage. The passage says grasping at the five aggregates is sakkaya.
James Tan wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:25 amSakkayo means embodiment .
No. It does not necessarily mean "embodiment" (which is merely a translation by an English monk named Ānandajoti Bhikkhu). A Chinese translation of the sutta is here: https://suttacentral.net/zh/mn44
SarathW wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:58 am What is the meaning of the word "Embodiment"?
Why don't you read the passage in Singhala rather than post as though the Buddha spoke English? Here: https://suttacentral.net/si/mn44
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
SarathW
Posts: 16974
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

Post by SarathW »

The passage says grasping at the five aggregates is sakkaya.
Grasping as what?
Last edited by SarathW on Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 11911
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Sakkaya Ditthi is not self-view!!

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote: Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:28 amGrasping at what?
This is the most basic teaching of Buddhism. :roll:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Post Reply