Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?

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SarathW
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Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?

Post by SarathW »

Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?
In the following video, a Sri Lankan monk Mankadawala Sudassana Himi said that NEFP is both Samatha and Vipassana
He said that the Samadhi aspect of NEFP is Samatha and the Panna aspect of NEFP is Vipassana.
According to him the object of Samath is to bring the mind to the present moment.
Then you see the Anicca,Dukkaha and Anatta in the present moment to develop Panna.
The Dhamma talk is in the Sinhalese language.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Dhammanando
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Re: Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?

Post by Dhammanando »

SarathW wrote: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:18 am Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?
Yes. From the Nettipakaraṇa's Sixteen Modes of Conveying in Separate Treatment it may be inferred that the first two path factors are to be reckoned as vipassanā and the remaining six as samatha.

Nettippakaraṇa wrote:Herein, what is co-ordination of footing?

“Not doing any kind of evil,
Perfecting what is wholesome,
And purifying one’s own mind:
This is the Message of the Buddhas.”

(Dhp. 183)

What is the footing for that? It is the three kinds of good conduct, namely bodily good conduct, verbal good conduct, and mental good conduct. These are a footing.

Herein, any bodily and verbal good conduct are the aggregate of sīla. In the case of mental good conduct, any freedom from covetousness and freedom from ill-will are the aggregate of samādhi, and any right view is the aggregate of paññā. These are a footing.

Herein, the aggregate of sīla and the aggregate of samādhi are samatha, and the aggregate of paññā is vipassanā. These are a footing.

Herein, the fruit of samatha is deliverance of the heart due to fading of lust, and the fruit of vipassanā is the deliverance by paññā due to the fading of ignorance.
(Netti. 41)
Rūpehi bhikkhave arūpā santatarā.
Arūpehi nirodho santataro ti.


“Bhikkhus, the formless is more peaceful than the form realms.
Cessation is more peaceful than the formless realms.”
(Santatarasutta, Iti 73)
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

Verse 372. There Is No Wisdom In Those Who Do Not Think

No concentration wisdom lacks,
no wisdom concentration lacks,
in whom are both these qualities
near to Nibbana is that one.


Image

Explanation: For one who lacks meditation there is no wisdom. Both meditation and wisdom are essential and cannot be had without the other. If in a person, both wisdom and meditation are present, he is close to Nibbana.

http://www.buddhanet.net/dhammapada/d_monks.htm


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pyluyten
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Re: Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?

Post by pyluyten »

Lucas Oliveira wrote: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:02 pm Verse 372. There Is No Wisdom In Those Who Do Not Think

No concentration wisdom lacks,
no wisdom concentration lacks,
in whom are both these qualities
near to Nibbana is that one.


Image

Explanation: For one who lacks meditation there is no wisdom. Both meditation and wisdom are essential and cannot be had without the other. If in a person, both wisdom and meditation are present, he is close to Nibbana.

http://www.buddhanet.net/dhammapada/d_monks.htm


:anjali:
i looked at this dhammapada one, and i saw "panna natthi ajhayato".
I guess "panna" is the usual term for wisdom ; then "natthi" seems to be a negation ; and what is ajhayato ?

thxs
SarathW
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Re: Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?

Post by SarathW »

in whom are both these qualities
Agree.
He also mentioned that according to NEFP both Samatha and Vipassana are to be developed in tandem.
He mentioned the following Sutta.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
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Re: Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?

Post by SarathW »

Herein, the aggregate of sīla and the aggregate of samādhi are samatha, and the aggregate of paññā is vipassanā. These are a footing.
Thank you.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
paul
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Re: Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?

Post by paul »

Vipassana is the insights which inform right view and cause it to evolve; it is produced through the dynamic interaction of the threefold division of the path (sila also is necessary), so all eight factors are involved in the vipassana process.


“Though right concentration claims the last place among the factors of the Noble Eightfold Path, concentration itself does not mark the path's culmination. The attainment of concentration makes the mind still and steady, unifies its concomitants, opens vast vistas of bliss, serenity, and power. But by itself it does not suffice to reach the highest accomplishment, release from the bonds of suffering. To reach the end of suffering demands that the Eightfold Path be turned into an instrument of discovery, that it be used to generate the insights unveiling the ultimate truth of things. This requires the combined contributions of all eight factors, and thus a new mobilization of right view and right intention. Up to the present point these first two path factors have performed only a preliminary function. Now they have to be taken up again and raised to a higher level. Right view is to become a direct seeing into the real nature of phenomena, previously grasped only conceptually; right intention, to become a true renunciation of defilements born out of deep understanding.”—-“The Noble Eightfold Path,” Bikkhu Bodhi.

I cannot be said that right effort and right mindfulness are entirely components of samatha; right mindfulness can incline either towards right effort or right concentration and right effort is an energy factor. The seven factors of enlightenment are divided into mindfulness, investigation, energy, rapture (energy factors) and calm, concentration, equanimity, (tranquillity factors).
Last edited by paul on Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
SarathW
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Re: Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?

Post by SarathW »

If anyone interested the link to Map for the Aranyas of this monk.
These websites are maintained by the monks in this temple.
Dhammahadaya Viharaya.
http://sudassana.org/map
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

pyluyten wrote: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:23 pm
i looked at this dhammapada one, and i saw "panna natthi ajhayato".
I guess "panna" is the usual term for wisdom ; then "natthi" seems to be a negation ; and what is ajhayato ?

thxs
strange not to find the meaning of this word

a well known verse of the dhammapada

has this topic here with the same question
viewtopic.php?t=26341

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SarathW
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Re: Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?

Post by SarathW »

Natthi jhanam apannassa,
Panna natthi ajhayato;
Yamhi jhanan ca panna ca,
Sa ve Nibbanasantike.
“There is no Jhana without wisdom,
There is no wisdom without Jhana.
One who has Jhana and wisdom,
He is in the vicinity of Nibbana.”

http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhis ... ibbana.pdf
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
pyluyten
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Re: Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?

Post by pyluyten »

SarathW wrote: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:20 am Natthi jhanam apannassa,
Panna natthi ajhayato;
Yamhi jhanan ca panna ca,
Sa ve Nibbanasantike.
“There is no Jhana without wisdom,
There is no wisdom without Jhana.
One who has Jhana and wisdom,
He is in the vicinity of Nibbana.”

http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhis ... ibbana.pdf
so in "ajhayato" the jha is the same as "jhana" ? sorry i don't know pali
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

pyluyten wrote: Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:36 am
SarathW wrote: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:20 am Natthi jhanam apannassa,
Panna natthi ajhayato;
Yamhi jhanan ca panna ca,
Sa ve Nibbanasantike.
“There is no Jhana without wisdom,
There is no wisdom without Jhana.
One who has Jhana and wisdom,
He is in the vicinity of Nibbana.”

http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhis ... ibbana.pdf
so in "ajhayato" the jha is the same as "jhana" ? sorry i don't know pali
yato: [ind.] from where; whence; since; because; on account of which.
http://www.buddha-vacana.org/toolbox/dico.html

http://dsalsrv02.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/p ... .0.11.pali

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pyluyten
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Re: Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?

Post by pyluyten »

SarathW wrote: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:20 am Natthi jhanam apannassa,
Panna natthi ajhayato;
Yamhi jhanan ca panna ca,
Sa ve Nibbanasantike.
“There is no Jhana without wisdom,
There is no wisdom without Jhana.
One who has Jhana and wisdom,
He is in the vicinity of Nibbana.”

http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhis ... ibbana.pdf
ah read it again and it's more clear now. Sometimes my brain is just slow :embarassed:

it's almost the same translation in "Early Buddhist Meditation: The Four Jhanas as the Actualization of Insight" Keren Arbel. The book, following current "trend", looks at the Nikayas and conclude there is no "vipassana" practice opposed to "samatha" practice ; and the Path does not involve concentration in one hand, wisdom in another. Rather, jhanas are part of the path, these are both samatha and vipassana. (Well i did not read the book, just the free excerpt. )

So Keren Arbel translation is

There is no jhana for the one without wisdom,
no wisdom for the one without jhana;
the one who has jhana and wisdom,
he indeed is in the presence of nibbana.
SarathW
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Re: Does Noble Eightfold Path include both Samatha and Vipassana?

Post by SarathW »

Rather, jhanas are part of the path
Agree.
But you can experience Jhana without wisdom (Panna).
This is called Sanna Samapatti.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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