Sotapanna and five precepts

[asahi]

Frution is a mind moment state that offers wisdom that destroys three fetters. Further work is required to snuff out greed/fear and as long as this is present there is killing.

If you mean at the moment of insight it happens yes . Thereafter , the insight remains , you dont have to again make efforts to attain it .

I would agree, that nibbana “has been experienced” and then one has the wisdom of knowing this peace is always there behind all the stuff.
No need to find nibbana again it’s simply a matter of letting go of the stuff if one chooses to do this noble work.
Or one may have family/offspring and spouse to care for, in which case things such as killing can become part of your life experience in a more gross nature.

It really depends on what you mean by nibbana . But in either case , no intentional killing except accidentally happens .

[thepea]

If you mean at the moment of insight it happens yes . Thereafter , the insight remains , you dont have to again make efforts to attain it .

I would agree, that nibbana “has been experienced” and then one has the wisdom of knowing this peace is always there behind all the stuff.
No need to find nibbana again it’s simply a matter of letting go of the stuff if one chooses to do this noble work.
Or one may have family/offspring and spouse to care for, in which case things such as killing can become part of your life experience in a more gross nature.

It really depends on what you mean by nibbana . But in either case , no intentional killing except accidentally happens .

Why do you think that?
For a monastic, they MUST follow the sila. If they break it then they cease to be a monastic. But.... layfolk can do retreats 1-3-10-20-30-45-60-90-etc..... and develop in wisdom and clear past traumas.
Then they can return to family life as a provider and fish, hunt, grow crops(which involves killing) raise livestock.
It is not readily available for some to completely change their careers or family life.
They most certainly can after attainment but it’s not required at this level of nobility.
I’m living proof of this, and have been “verified” by teacher on long course. Many attain stream entry after doing proper practice. Many stay silent about this, some speak freely about this. I speak out and challenge authority, if you tell me I must go right I go left. This is my nature, if it doesn’t make sense to me I challenge it.
It’s kinda taboo to speak of attainments here at DW, I’ve witnessed a few get crusified for doing so. I found this wrong speech on those who criticized those who voiced attainments and were criticized rudely. This is why I speak out because I can handle that kind of speech.
I also fish and eat fish and must provess(kill) fish and I’m a sotapanna. So it’s proof that a sotapanna can kill and I know I’m a sotapanna, so in my case I know exactly who I am.

[SarathW]

What happens to those who reach Nirodha Samapatti but forget to end the defilements?

The way I understand, only Anagami and Arahants can enter Nirodha Samapatti.
They always emerge from that and never die in that state according to Sutta.

[Pondera]

What happens to those who reach Nirodha Samapatti but forget to end the defilements?

The way I understand, only Anagami and Arahants can enter Nirodha Samapatti.
They always emerge from that and never die in that state according to Sutta.

Thank you SarathW

[justindesilva]

What happens to those who reach Nirodha Samapatti but forget to end the defilements?

The way I understand, only Anagami and Arahants can enter Nirodha Samapatti.
They always emerge from that and never die in that state according to Sutta.

Thank you SarathW

In this regard one may read article "nirodha samapatthi " ,,in sworld.wordpress.com by Ari Ubesekara.
With mettha.

[thepea]

The way I understand, only Anagami and Arahants can enter Nirodha Samapatti.
They always emerge from that and never die in that state according to Sutta.

Thank you SarathW

In this regard one may read article "nirodha samapatthi " ,,in sworld.wordpress.com by Ari Ubesekara.
With mettha.

What is nirodha samapatthi?
Describe in your own words.
Is it nibbana or different?
Only use your words.

[justindesilva]

Thank you SarathW

In this regard one may read article "nirodha samapatthi " ,,in sworld.wordpress.com by Ari Ubesekara.
With mettha.

What is nirodha samapatthi?
Describe in your own words.
Is it nibbana or different?
Only use your words.

Nirodha samapatthi is literally translated as attainment of cessation. And cessation is said of cessation of ideation and feeling, with the passing of 8th dyana.
It may be a route to nibbana , which is not within my intellect. The ubeysris article mentioned by me, and available on google gives a better picture.

[Pondera]

Thank you SarathW

In this regard one may read article "nirodha samapatthi " ,,in sworld.wordpress.com by Ari Ubesekara.
With mettha.

What is nirodha samapatthi?
Describe in your own words.
Is it nibbana or different?
Only use your words.

Different or not - people will be arguing this question until the last sutta is forgotten or misplaced. Until the last computer with a link to suttacentral is destroyed.

Nibanna is defined as the ending of the effluents. One need not enter Nirodha Samapatti in order to end the effluents.

But Sariputta ended the effluents while in Nirodha Samapatti. That is why is asked what happens to a gainer of that state who “neglects” to end the effluents there.

And what is special about Nirodha Samapatti that ending the effluents there is considered the highest escape with no sequel?

[thepea]

In this regard one may read article "nirodha samapatthi " ,,in sworld.wordpress.com by Ari Ubesekara.
With mettha.

What is nirodha samapatthi?
Describe in your own words.
Is it nibbana or different?
Only use your words.

Nirodha samapatthi is literally translated as attainment of cessation. And cessation is said of cessation of ideation and feeling, with the passing of 8th dyana.
It may be a route to nibbana , which is not within my intellect. The ubeysris article mentioned by me, and available on google gives a better picture.

So.... basically you have no idea what your talking about.

[thepea]

In this regard one may read article "nirodha samapatthi " ,,in sworld.wordpress.com by Ari Ubesekara.
With mettha.

What is nirodha samapatthi?
Describe in your own words.
Is it nibbana or different?
Only use your words.

Different or not - people will be arguing this question until the last sutta is forgotten or misplaced. Until the last computer with a link to suttacentral is destroyed.

Nibanna is defined as the ending of the effluents. One need not enter Nirodha Samapatti in order to end the effluents.

But Sariputta ended the effluents while in Nirodha Samapatti. That is why is asked what happens to a gainer of that state who “neglects” to end the effluents there.

And what is special about Nirodha Samapatti that ending the effluents there is considered the highest escape with no sequel?

Because “it’s” nibanna. Let’s not complicate the dhamma sir.

[Pondera]

What is nirodha samapatthi?
Describe in your own words.
Is it nibbana or different?
Only use your words.

Different or not - people will be arguing this question until the last sutta is forgotten or misplaced. Until the last computer with a link to suttacentral is destroyed.

Nibanna is defined as the ending of the effluents. One need not enter Nirodha Samapatti in order to end the effluents.

But Sariputta ended the effluents while in Nirodha Samapatti. That is why is asked what happens to a gainer of that state who “neglects” to end the effluents there.

And what is special about Nirodha Samapatti that ending the effluents there is considered the highest escape with no sequel?

Because “it’s” nibanna. Let’s not complicate the dhamma sir.

No “it’s” not. Nibanna is defined as the ending of the effluents - not the attainment of Nirodha Samapatti.

[thepea]

Different or not - people will be arguing this question until the last sutta is forgotten or misplaced. Until the last computer with a link to suttacentral is destroyed.

Nibanna is defined as the ending of the effluents. One need not enter Nirodha Samapatti in order to end the effluents.

But Sariputta ended the effluents while in Nirodha Samapatti. That is why is asked what happens to a gainer of that state who “neglects” to end the effluents there.

And what is special about Nirodha Samapatti that ending the effluents there is considered the highest escape with no sequel?

Because “it’s” nibanna. Let’s not complicate the dhamma sir.

No “it’s” not. Nibanna is defined as the ending of the effluents - not the attainment of Nirodha Samapatti.

Have you experienced this “ending of suffering”?
Take it from someone speaking from experience you are confusing this “end of suffering” with arahantship.
The sotapanna is gifted a “glimpse” of the ultimate truth.
Then as “the all” returns the sotapanna knows nibbana as the underlying peace within but has not full access to this peace on its own, where say an once returner or an arahant might.
The two are synonymous as far as states of ultimate reality go.

[asahi]

I also fish and eat fish and must provess(kill) fish and I’m a sotapanna. So it’s proof that a sotapanna can kill and I know I’m a sotapanna, so in my case I know exactly who I am.

Sotapanna is just a labeling . What does you awakened to , that is the question ! Prove that if you can .

[auto]

But Sariputta ended the effluents while in Nirodha Samapatti. That is why is asked what happens to a gainer of that state who “neglects” to end the effluents there.

And what is special about Nirodha Samapatti that ending the effluents there is considered the highest escape with no sequel?

you are saying this because you think one can do insight during absorption. I don't get it how you not the very least see a controversial point, but instead going with your bias.

[Ontheway]

I also fish and eat fish and must provess(kill) fish and I’m a sotapanna. So it’s proof that a sotapanna can kill and I know I’m a sotapanna, so in my case I know exactly who I am.

Sotapanna is just a labeling . What does you awakened to , that is the question ! Prove that if you can .

I think he will just prove it by using his own speech.

He discarded Buddha's advice, precepts, Suttas, everything... Yet he claimed to be Sotapanna, one stage of the sainthoods proclaimed by the Buddha, which is only attainable by following the teachings of the Buddha.

For him, this is just a "game" for gaining recognition.