thepea wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:27 pm
If according to you and your interpretation of the suttas a sotapanna is incapable of killing, why the redundancy of listing the actions a sota is incapable of performing?
It’s not in alignment with the consistency and clarity of the teachings.
A sotapanna is restrained from killing, is said which is not an absolute. Then in another statement specific actions a sota is incapable of performing is used as he lists the three specific types of murder.
It’s simple to comprehend that a sota can kill, but they simply are incapable of performing murder upon ones mother, father or arahant, as these require a mind residing in the lower realms which has been liberated in a sota.
I know the Sutta you are referring to regading that a sotapanna cannot kill father, mother, or arahant. However, there are numerous other Suttas that state a noble one (Sotapanna or higher) does not kill or that killing leads to a low destination, hell or animal womb. A sotapanna is guaranteed not to go to a lower realm.
As Sam Vara noted, it was not necessarily meant to be an exhaustive list regarding not killing parents or arahant. Perhaps it's meaning is that anyone who kills their mother, father, or arahant will
never reach sotapanna or higher, in this life. Whereas someone who kills an animal, could potentially repent, change his ways and eventually become a noble one.
He is freed from the possibility of rebirth in the four lower realms. (Ratanasutta Sn. 234)
He has abandoned any lust, hate or delusion that would be strong enough to cause rebirth in the lower realms. (Abhabba Sutta AN. iii. 438)
Monks, one possessed of three qualities is put into Purgatory according to his actions. What three? One is himself a taker of life, encourages another to do the same and approves thereof. Monks, one possessed of three qualities is put into heaven according to his actions. What three? He himself abstains from taking life, encourages another to so abstain, and approves of such abstention. Anguttara Nikaya, 3.16
(Those who kill go to lower realms, but a sotapanna does not because a sotapanna does not kill.)
"Bhikkhus, a noble disciple who possesses four things is a stream-enterer, . . . He possesses the virtues (precepts) dear to the noble ones, unbroken." Samyutta Nikaya 55.2
"The stream winner, with virtues (precepts) dear to noble ones endowed, which are unbroken and without a rent, untarnished and without a blemish, purifying, praised by the wise, uncontaminated and conducive to concentration." Anguttara Nikaya 9.27
Shortly after the death of a lay person named Sarakani, the Buddha identified him as a stream-entrant. Then some monks complained that Sarakani could not have been a stream-entrant as this lay person indulged in alcohol. But the Buddha remarked that, "
Sarakani the Sakyan undertook the training at the time of his death." Samyutta Nikaya 55.24 The lay person Sarakani practiced the moral precepts in full before his death, thus, confirming that one cannot be a stream-entrant or higher if one violates the moral precepts. In the more positive way, one who follows the precepts and practices diligently, stream-entry or higher can be attained.