What is merit?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Stillness
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Re: What is merit?

Post by Stillness »

In brief, AN 4.57 speaks of long life, beauty, happiness, and strength as karmic results of the act of offering food. Now bare in mind that this discourse has no parallel even in the Pali Canon. But the MN 135 has 17 parallels. Therefore, in this case, it’s safe to assume the teachings given in the MN 135 are authentic. According to MN 135, refraining from the destruction of life will result long life. And, refraining from anger will result beauty. The strength can be taken as an attribute of being healthy which is a result of being refrain from harming beings. The happiness is an universal outcome due to one or many wholesome results.

Interestingly, there’s a story in Vinaya where Suppavāsā (the devotee mentioned in AN 4.57) said to cut flesh from her thigh to cook for a monk who craved to eat meat!

As in the AN 4.57, the same later tendency of attributing various good outcomes of a single action also can be seen in Dhammapada 109 where it speaks of long life, beauty, happiness, and strength as outcomes of performing service and paying respect to elders/superiors. The service and respect may have become wanting at a later time in India as they were able to take two separate places in the above mentioned list of 10 meritorious actions. In some Asian Buddhist communities, this stanza also used as a blessing mantra at the end of meetings/functions if a monk is available there to chant it.

Interestingly, Dhammapada 109 also without any parallel except in the ancient Indian “Laws of Manu” (Manusmṛti).
befriend wrote: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:40 pmStillness, Buddha recommended doing good things not only refraining from evil.
Isn’t refraining from unwholesome itself a wholesome action?

As my availability with an online facility ends today, I won’t be able to participate further in the discussion for some time.
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Volo
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Re: What is merit?

Post by Volo »

Stillness wrote: Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:10 am Interestingly, Dhammapada 109 also without any parallel except in the ancient Indian
According to Anandajoti's "Parallels to the Dhammapada Verses", it has parallel in Gandhari Dhammapada (Gāndhārī 172 [11.11] Suha)
WorldTraveller
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Re: What is merit?

Post by WorldTraveller »

Volovsky wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:27 am
Stillness wrote: Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:10 am Interestingly, Dhammapada 109 also without any parallel except in the ancient Indian
According to Anandajoti's "Parallels to the Dhammapada Verses", it has parallel in Gandhari Dhammapada (Gāndhārī 172 [11.11] Suha)
Perhaps he/she meant non-Buddhist parallels. However, Pali and Gandhari has one word difference.
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Volo
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Re: What is merit?

Post by Volo »

WorldTraveller wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:07 am Perhaps he/she meant non-Buddhist parallels.
But then it would actually prove legitimacy.
However, Pali and Gandhari has one word difference.
Can you post the Gandhari version of the verse? Since I don't have the text.
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StormBorn
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Re: What is merit?

Post by StormBorn »

Volovsky wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:21 am
WorldTraveller wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:07 am Perhaps he/she meant non-Buddhist parallels.
But then it would actually prove legitimacy.
I think having the stanza or the meaning of it somewhere else in the first four nikāyas would actually prove legitimacy. That's my view only. :smile:
Volovsky wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:21 am
WorldTraveller wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:07 amHowever, Pali and Gandhari has one word difference.
Can you post the Gandhari version of the verse? Since I don't have the text.
Pāli Dhp 109: “Abhivādanasīlissa, niccaṃ vaddhāpacāyino; Cattāro dhammā vaḍḍhanti, āyu vaṇṇo sukhaṃ balaṃ.
Gāndhārī Dhp 172: “Ahivadaṇaśilisa nica vridhavayariṇo catvari tasa vardhadi ayo kirta suha bala
Manusmṛti 2.121: “Abhivādana.śīlasya nityaṃ vṛddha.upasevinaḥ catvāri tasya vardhante āyur dharmo yaśo balam.
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”
simsapa
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Re: What is merit?

Post by simsapa »

Santānaṃ punāti visodhetī ti ‘puññan’ ti.
"It cleanses and purifies the mental continuum, thus it is called 'merit'."

It consists in the wholesome volition (kusala cetanā) present on any occasion of dāna, sīla or bhāvanā performed by a non-arahant.
What is the source of this? Is there a source that clearly says it's the wholesome volition (kusala cetanā)?
thepea
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Re: What is merit?

Post by thepea »

Merit is reward.
You can say the fruits or ones kamma.
Cause_and_Effect
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Re: What is merit?

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

Sam Vara wrote: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:42 pm Merit is a translation of the Pali word 'puñña'.
So on the question of dedication of merit, do you think it can be given as a gift? There is a sutta where the Buddha says that certain beings namely ghosts can receive some form of offerings.

This talk by Ajahn Geoff discusses also
https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Medit ... n0029.html


"One evening when I was meditating, I happened to think about one of the supporters of the temple. She was going through a bad time, so I sent some metta in her direction. The next day, she came to the monastery and said, “Did you send metta to me last night?” She had felt it, and she knew where it came from...

A brahman once went to the Buddha and asked him about the brahmanical tradition of making merit for dead ancestors. His question was, “Do the dead ancestors receive the merit?” And the Buddha said, “If they’re in a position where it’s possible for them to receive it, they will.” And that possible position was the realm of the hungry ghosts."
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
TRobinson465
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Re: What is merit?

Post by TRobinson465 »

How it was explained to me. Merit is the energy that brings the results of ur good karma to fruition. An analogy is that merit is the electricity that powers the light bulb or electronic. The light/whatever your electronic does is the result, the electricity/merit is the power that allowed the results to happen.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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Sam Vara
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Re: What is merit?

Post by Sam Vara »

Cause_and_Effect wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:00 am
Sam Vara wrote: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:42 pm Merit is a translation of the Pali word 'puñña'.
So on the question of dedication of merit, do you think it can be given as a gift? There is a sutta where the Buddha says that certain beings namely ghosts can receive some form of offerings.
I don't know the answer to that one. How could we ever tell? At best, we can take it as an article of faith.
asahi
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Re: What is merit?

Post by asahi »

Perhaps merit or punna can be taken as a kind of result of good deeds accumulation .
It can be shared to a certain degree in certain imo .
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Cause_and_Effect
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Re: What is merit?

Post by Cause_and_Effect »

Sam Vara wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:27 am
Cause_and_Effect wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:00 am
Sam Vara wrote: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:42 pm Merit is a translation of the Pali word 'puñña'.
So on the question of dedication of merit, do you think it can be given as a gift? There is a sutta where the Buddha says that certain beings namely ghosts can receive some form of offerings.
I don't know the answer to that one. How could we ever tell? At best, we can take it as an article of faith.
But if there is a sutta discussed that the realm of hungry shades can receive offerings, what is the understanding within the framework of kamma and causality how this would actually be possible?

I'm interested as to Thanissaro's example where the recipient felt the metta also, this indicates an aspect of metta as a mind force that those who are sensitive to can pick up on.
"Therein monks, that Dimension should be known wherein the eye ceases and the perception of forms fades away...the ear... the nose...the tongue... the body ceases and the perception of touch fades away...

That Dimension should be known wherein mentality ceases and the perception of mind-objects fades away.
That Dimension should be known; that Dimension should be known."


(S. IV. 98) - The Dimension beyond the All
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Ceisiwr
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Re: What is merit?

Post by Ceisiwr »

The dedication of merit is where you invite the hungry ghosts to rejoice in your dana. It's a means of encouraging them to do good on their own, thus generating good kamma, rather than any literal transference.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Sam Vara
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Re: What is merit?

Post by Sam Vara »

Cause_and_Effect wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:25 am
Sam Vara wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:27 am
Cause_and_Effect wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:00 am

So on the question of dedication of merit, do you think it can be given as a gift? There is a sutta where the Buddha says that certain beings namely ghosts can receive some form of offerings.
I don't know the answer to that one. How could we ever tell? At best, we can take it as an article of faith.
But if there is a sutta discussed that the realm of hungry shades can receive offerings, what is the understanding within the framework of kamma and causality how this would actually be possible?

I'm interested as to Thanissaro's example where the recipient felt the metta also, this indicates an aspect of metta as a mind force that those who are sensitive to can pick up on.
That question is beyond my level of understanding, I'm afraid. I have trouble understanding how kamma works! :toilet:
form
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Re: What is merit?

Post by form »

befriend wrote: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:07 pm Merit is good kamma. Bright kamma with bright results.
Yes. Plain and simple. What adjective and what noun just confused others.
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