I don't think I implied that you were or weren't in agreement. I was running with the claims that were quoted about innovation, etc., and making some general observations. I believe very little of what is given as 'gospel' in many of these accounts of gatherings. I have no way of corroborating any of it.chownah wrote: ↑Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:37 amPerhaps you misinterpreted my post. I have not indicated that I am in agreement with anything and was simply pointing out how the quote actually did contain an answer to the question.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:15 amHaven't I read that the Buddha said he 'rediscovered' what was lost in the culture of his day? If something is rediscovered, it is not a new thing. In fact, there is a very good possibility that in other parts of the world, perhaps the classical world of the Mediterranean, that whatever the Buddha discovered was in fact still alive. I don't think we have any way of knowing this as we don't even know if this is something the Buddha actually said. I think the power of 'fake news' has been going on for millenium as the desire to sway others towards something is one of man's chief problems. Why would anyone be hung up on 'the innovation of Siddhartha Gautama'? Pure marketing? The Christ, he died for your sins is another statement that comes to mind. We all want to spin a story for our own purposes.
As to if the buddha "rediscovered" what was lost....I think that the pali canon claims that there were buddha's that came before gotama and that gotama rediscovered the dhamma....in theravada the idea of a samasam buddha is that they rediscover the dhamma and since gotama was a samasam buddha then by definition it was a rediscovery.
As to whether the buddha was pure marketing....I believe there is a sutta (perhaps two) where the buddha while debating someone of some other belief system he asked where were the awakened disciples of that other belief system (there were none) and the buddha stated that he had hundreds and hundreds of them....(false claim?)...noone is reported to have disputed that (suppression of facts?) Also, the buddha (again in a sort of debate situation) claimed to be able to remain in a state of transcendental bliss for as long as he like....and this wasn't questioned either. False claim? with suppressed reporting?
You can of course just claim that the entire pali canon is fake news....then there would be nothing to discuss so I doubt that you would make that claim.