"Buddhist India" by Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder

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dylanj
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"Buddhist India" by Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder

Post by dylanj »

I'm trying to decide between buying "Buddhist India" by TW Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder.
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
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Re: "Buddhist India" by Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder

Post by BKh »

Here is a rough epub of Buddhist India.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/884u5zo6bvt7l ... .epub?dl=1

As I recall, Indian Buddhism is much, much larger. And of course, it is much more recent.
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Re: "Buddhist India" by Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder

Post by dylanj »

BKh wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:20 am Here is a rough epub of Buddhist India.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/884u5zo6bvt7l ... .epub?dl=1

As I recall, Indian Buddhism is much, much larger. And of course, it is much more recent.
Thanks, I had the latter as an ebook already so this is nice. I can compare them.

It's like 40% larger yeah. & yes more recent but I wonder if the age of the former is a detriment or not.
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
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Re: "Buddhist India" by Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder

Post by paul »

"India Discovered" is a valuable book for practitioners in the formative stage of understanding Theravada. It is the story of how British colonialists came to find out about the great artefacts of Indian culture including those of Asoka, the Buddha, Ajanta, and the Indus Valley civilization, the script of which still remains undeciphered.
http://mnitin73.blogspot.com/2014/09/a- ... vered.html
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Eko Care
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Re: "Buddhist India" by Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder

Post by Eko Care »

Russell Bowden says that some of the theories of European-based scholars such as Rhys Davids, Horner, Geiger ..etc are not always based on known facts.
Russell Bowden: Writing down of the Pali Tripitaka at Aloka Vihara in Sri Lanka


Facts vs Theories
As so often in Buddhist Studies, and as the quotations above prove, facts are not always easy to come by. In their place theories thrive and speculations grow. These theories relates, in the main, to critical comments made in the last two centuries of European-based Buddhist Studies by a host of scholars ranging from Rhys Davids, Horner, Geiger through to Malalasekara and Law and more contemporary scholars such as Adikaram, Rahula and Gunawardana.
1. 2. 3. ... 11. ...
Almost all these theories require to be tested and can not be allowed to pass without comment.

... are not based on known facts. ...
... may be related to what they believed ....
... Historical sources do not bear this interpretation out. ...
... seems to be far too radical a theory to accept.
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Re: "Buddhist India" by Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder

Post by 48vows »

dylanj wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:03 am I'm trying to decide between buying "Buddhist India" by TW Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder.
They are two different books.
As for "Buddhist India" by TW Rhys Davids, it is also published for free distribution.
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Re: "Buddhist India" by Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder

Post by plabit »

BKh wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:20 am Here is a rough epub of Buddhist India.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/884u5zo6bvt7l ... .epub?dl=1

As I recall, Indian Buddhism is much, much larger. And of course, it is much more recent.
"Buddhist India" by TW Rhys Davids is from 1911 so public domain, and is on google books so can be downloaded as PDF scan rather than having to rely on a sketchy ocr'd text.
Eko Care wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:42 pm Russell Bowden says that some of the theories of European-based scholars such as Rhys Davids, Horner, Geiger ..etc are not always based on known facts.
Anyone who has read Rhys Davids book will know when he is conjecturing based on tentative data because he tells you. I think Warder does too, but I don't remember it as well, but I know I've read some of it, probably as much as is in the google preview.

These books are by real scholars, who assumed everyone could digest all the facts and their conclusions, so they lay it all out there. That is, what was know in their time. And I don't believe much more is known now, if anything at all. Its not like the popular propaganda books you're used to like Walpola Rahula and the like. You might not like that Rhys Davids discusses things like whether the councils really did this or that, but he is not just asserting that they did do this or that (all the popular propaganda books of today do) but he lays out the evidence of what we can know for sure they did or didn't do, and concludes that probably things outside of that they didn't but doesn't pronounce as if he's infallible like the books you're familiar with. This is why you don't like him, or why your propagandist scholar who wants to pretend they know some facts by magic doesn't like him.
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Re: "Buddhist India" by Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder

Post by DooDoot »

Eko Care wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:42 pm Russell Bowden says that some of the theories of European-based scholars such as Rhys Davids, Horner, Geiger ..etc are not always based on known facts.
plabit wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:37 am Anyone who has read Rhys Davids book will know when he is conjecturing based on tentative data because he tells you. I think Warder does too, but I don't remember it as well, but I know I've read some of it, probably as much as is in the google preview.

These books are by real scholars, who assumed everyone could digest all the facts and their conclusions, so they lay it all out there.
The quality of posts on this forum is reaching new lows. X is wonderful, Y is great, Z is bad, P is evil, yet without any substantiation.

This is a discussion forum rather than a guru/scholar worship forum.
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Buddhist India" by Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder

Post by plabit »

Eko Care wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:42 pm Russell Bowden says that some of the theories of European-based scholars such as Rhys Davids, Horner, Geiger ..etc are not always based on known facts.
I have one thing further to add on this. These individuals wrote BOOKS for public consumption by anyone, and were not like the cowardly scholars of today who hide from the general public and only publish in academic papers, and charge BOOK PRICES for crappy articles on JSTOR! Modern scholars are greedy for filthy lucre. These scholars that Mr. Jstor Scholar "give me $15 for one 53 page article" doesn't compare to a scholar who was only charging probably $20 or $30 for a 323 page book! Bowden has no room to criticize those scholars at all. He is an empty suit and empty shell in comparison.
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Re: "Buddhist India" by Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder

Post by DooDoot »

plabit wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:45 am I have one thing further to add on this. These individuals wrote BOOKS for public consumption by anyone, and were not like the cowardly scholars of today who hide from the general public and only publish in academic papers, and charge BOOK PRICES for crappy articles on JSTOR! Modern scholars are greedy for filthy lucre. These scholars that Mr. Jstor Scholar "give me $15 for one 53 page article" doesn't compare to a scholar who was only charging probably $20 or $30 for a 323 page book! Bowden has no room to criticize those scholars at all. He is an empty suit and empty shell in comparison.
:soap: :computerproblem: what's going here? :shrug:
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Re: "Buddhist India" by Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder

Post by DooDoot »

48vows wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:43 am
dylanj wrote: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:03 am I'm trying to decide between buying "Buddhist India" by TW Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder.
They are two different books.
As for "Buddhist India" by TW Rhys Davids, it is also published for free distribution.
Dylan passed away.
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Re: "Buddhist India" by Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder

Post by plabit »

DooDoot wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:47 am
plabit wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:45 am I have one thing further to add on this. These individuals wrote BOOKS for public consumption by anyone, and were not like the cowardly scholars of today who hide from the general public and only publish in academic papers, and charge BOOK PRICES for crappy articles on JSTOR! Modern scholars are greedy for filthy lucre. These scholars that Mr. Jstor Scholar "give me $15 for one 53 page article" doesn't compare to a scholar who was only charging probably $20 or $30 for a 323 page book! Bowden has no room to criticize those scholars at all. He is an empty suit and empty shell in comparison.
:soap: :computerproblem:
It happens with anything I look into. Its all jstor articles. These scholars just want money and will tell any lie to get it.
Its easy to write 53 pages criticizing a past scholar on a minute point and make $15 a pop from people who know nothing on the subject. But to write a whole book that actually informs, and lays out the evidence too. We won't see that kind of scholarship again for probably 100 years. It is limited to scholars who were born in the 1800s. The modern ones just want a quick buck, hence lazy jstor articles.
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Re: "Buddhist India" by Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder

Post by DooDoot »

plabit wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:50 am It happens with anything I look into. Its all jstor articles. These scholars just want money and will tell any lie to get it.
Its easy to write 53 pages criticizing a past scholar on a minute point and make $15 a pop from people who know nothing on the subject. But to write a whole book that actually informs, and lays out the evidence too. We won't see that kind of scholarship again for probably 100 years. It is limited to scholars who were born in the 1800s. The modern ones just want a quick buck, hence lazy jstor articles.
Maybe but possibly post some choice extracts from their papers for discussion. Thanks :thanks:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: "Buddhist India" by Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
plabit wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:50 am The modern ones just want a quick buck, hence lazy jstor articles.
It would appear then that learning the Dhamma via the suttas, would be preferable to learning about Buddhism via scholasticism.

Metta,
Paul. :)
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Re: "Buddhist India" by Rhys Davids or "Indian Buddhism" by AK Warder

Post by plabit »

DooDoot wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:51 am
plabit wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:50 am It happens with anything I look into. Its all jstor articles. These scholars just want money and will tell any lie to get it.
Its easy to write 53 pages criticizing a past scholar on a minute point and make $15 a pop from people who know nothing on the subject. But to write a whole book that actually informs, and lays out the evidence too. We won't see that kind of scholarship again for probably 100 years. It is limited to scholars who were born in the 1800s. The modern ones just want a quick buck, hence lazy jstor articles.
Maybe but possibly post some choice extracts from their papers for discussion. Thanks :thanks:
But then I'd have to pay $15 per article because I'm not a professor at a university nor a student at a university since long time back, so that is my complaint. If Bowden wants ME to take him seriously, it will take more than an endorsement on here, but he will have to write a full-length book refuting Rhys Davids point by point, and he will have to sell it at a reasonable price, not $150 via de Gruyter.
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