Circle5 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:12 pm
Actually stream entry requires attaining the Deathless, penetrating to the Sorrowless (asoka) state and witnessing the cessation of sankhara. Faith-Follower and Dhamma-Followers on other hand
In 10k pages of nikayas, have you seen a single case where more than contemplation of higher dhamma was required ? Have you noticed a case in the suttas where there was contemplation of higher dhamma + something else, and not just contemplation of higher dhamma alone ? Have you noticed a case where it took longer than a couple of days to achieve ? If I remember corectly, it was just one case where a guy took like a month to achieve it, and he was a pretty slow guy from the warior caste.
Even though it might seem easy giving these conditions, it's actually something very hard these days, proven by the fact that very few people bother to read the nikayas and the higher dhamma section of it cause it's a way too long - thousands of pages of difficult material. Most get stuck into reading some random suttas in random order, suttas that are usually not part of the higher dhamma section, and doing some breathing exercise invented by a 19th century guy that has nothing to do with teachings of the historical buddha.
7. “There is a path, Ānanda, a way to the abandoning of the five lower fetters; that anyone, without relying on that path, on that way, shall know or see or abandon the five lower fetters—this is not possible.
..
“And what, Ānanda, is the path, the way to the abandoning of the five lower fetters? ... He turns his mind away from those states [436] and directs it towards the deathless element thus: ‘This is the peaceful, this is the sublime, that is, the stilling of all formations, the relinquishing of all attachments, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, Nibbāna.’ If he is steady in that, he attains the destruction of the taints.
Then to Sariputta the wanderer, as he heard this Dhamma exposition, there arose the dustless, stainless Dhamma eye
...
Then Sariputta the wanderer went to Moggallana the wanderer. Moggallana the wanderer saw him coming from afar and, on seeing him, said, "Bright are your faculties, my friend; pure your complexion, and clear. Could it be that you have attained the Deathless?"
"Yes, my friend, I have attained the Deathless. "
..
Then to Moggallana the wanderer, as he heard this Dhamma exposition, there arose the dustless, stainless Dhamma eye: Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation.
Even if just this is the Dhamma,
you have penetrated
to the Sorrowless (asoka) State
unseen, overlooked (by us)
for many myriads of aeons.
— Mv.I.23.5
Deathless is attained by means of 8FNP;
This Noble Eightfold Path is the path leading to the Deathless; that is, right view … right concentration.”
8FNP implies cessation of sankhara;
The way leading to the cessation of formations is just this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view... right concentration.