Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
chownah
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Re: Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

Post by chownah »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:55 am
chownah wrote: What happened to the idea that all dhammas are impermanent?
Isn't citta a dhamma?
Isn't citta therefore impermanent?
inconstancy better describes the mind

changing from one state to another

hence cannot be regarded as self
The mind arises when conditions are met.....it endures for some finite amount of time....it fades....
This is impermanence.
This is not inconstancy.
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Re: Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

Post by cappuccino »

chownah wrote: The mind arises when conditions are met.....it endures for some finite amount of time....it fades....
this is not in the teaching
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Re: Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

Post by chownah »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:59 pm
chownah wrote: The mind arises when conditions are met.....it endures for some finite amount of time....it fades....
this is not in the teaching
DO
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Re: Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

Post by cappuccino »

chownah wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:23 am
cappuccino wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:59 pm
chownah wrote: The mind arises when conditions are met.....it endures for some finite amount of time....it fades....
this is not in the teaching
DO
no you've misread
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Re: Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Cappuccino,

Are you suggesting the Buddha "misread" too?
SN 47.42 wrote:"From the origination of name-&-form is the origination of the mind. From the cessation of name-&-form is the cessation of the mind.
Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

Post by cappuccino »

From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of the six sense media.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%A ... tp%C4%81da
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chownah
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Re: Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

Post by chownah »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:27 am From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of the six sense media.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%A ... tp%C4%81da
The mind is one of the six.
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Re: Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

Post by cappuccino »

chownah wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:24 am
cappuccino wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:27 am From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of the six sense media.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%A ... tp%C4%81da
The mind is one of the six.
chownah
where is this in the scriptures?
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Re: Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

Post by cappuccino »

the mind may sense, although it's not merely this
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chownah
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Re: Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

Post by chownah »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:25 am
chownah wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:24 am
cappuccino wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:27 am From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of the six sense media.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%A ... tp%C4%81da
The mind is one of the six.
chownah
where is this in the scriptures?
In the fire sermon is one place.
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Re: Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

Post by cappuccino »

chownah wrote: In the fire sermon is one place.
I don't think it says, what you think it says.
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Re: Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

Post by zan »

chownah wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:31 am What happened to the idea that all dhammas are impermanent?
Isn't citta a dhamma?
Isn't citta therefore impermanent?
chownah
:goodpost:

Same question. Eternal citta? Sabbe sankhara anicca (Dhp 277)? Is citta not a sankhara?
Cittānupassanā

...Iti ajjhattaṃ vā citte cittānupassī viharati, bahiddhā vā citte cittānupassī viharati, ajjhattabahiddhā vā citte cittānupassī viharati; samudayadhammānupassī vā cittasmiṃ viharati, vayadhammānupassī vā cittasmiṃ viharati, samudayavayadhammānupassī vā cittasmiṃ viharati. ‘Atthi cittan’ti vā panassa sati paccupaṭṭhitā hoti. Yāvadeva ñāṇamattāya paṭissatimattāya anissito ca viharati, na ca kiñci loke upādiyati. Evampi kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhu citte cittānupassī viharati.

Observing the Mind

...And so they meditate observing an aspect of the mind internally, externally, and both internally and externally. They meditate observing the mind as liable to originate, as liable to vanish, and as liable to both originate and vanish. Or mindfulness is established that the mind exists, to the extent necessary for knowledge and mindfulness. They meditate independent, not grasping at anything in the world. That’s how a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the mind.
-MN 10
Yañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vuccati cittaṃ itipi, mano itipi, viññāṇaṃ itipi, taṃ rattiyā ca divasassa ca aññadeva uppajjati aññaṃ nirujjhati. Seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, makkaṭo araññe pavane caramāno sākhaṃ gaṇhati, taṃ muñcitvā aññaṃ gaṇhati, taṃ muñcitvā aññaṃ gaṇhati; evameva kho, bhikkhave, yamidaṃ vuccati cittaṃ itipi, mano itipi, viññāṇaṃ itipi, taṃ rattiyā ca divasassa ca aññadeva uppajjati aññaṃ nirujjhati.

But that which is called ‘mind’ or ‘sentience’ or ‘consciousness’ arises as one thing and ceases as another all day and all night. It’s like a monkey moving through the forest. It grabs hold of one branch, lets it go, and grabs another; then it lets that go and grabs yet another. In the same way, that which is called ‘mind’ or ‘sentience’ or ‘consciousness’ arises as one thing and ceases as another all day and all night.
-SN 12.61
Nāmarūpasamudayā cittassa samudayo; nāmarūpanirodhā cittassa atthaṅgamo.

With the origination of name-and-form there is the origination of mind. With the cessation of name-and-form there is the passing away of mind.
-SN 47.42
Assume all of my words on dhamma could be incorrect. Seek an arahant for truth.


"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
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cappuccino
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Re: Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

Post by cappuccino »

zan wrote:Same question. Eternal citta? Is citta not a sankhara?
it would be difficult, to know the answer

or impossible, since soul is a mystery
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chownah
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Re: Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

Post by chownah »

cappuccino wrote: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:08 pm
chownah wrote: In the fire sermon is one place.
I don't think it says, what you think it says.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
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Re: Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

Post by cappuccino »

Maha-salayatanika Sutta wrote:contact at the intellect as they actually are present, knowing & seeing whatever arises conditioned through intellect-contact — experienced as pleasure, pain, or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — as it actually is present, one is not infatuated with the intellect...
one is (just) not infatuated with the intellect
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