how to deal with demons

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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DooDoot
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Re: how to deal with demons

Post by DooDoot »

squizzlebizzle wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:24 amIt's not a sufficient answer. You are also wrong about when they haunt. Maybe you have not experienced it, which is fortunate for you. I recognize that not many people will be able to speak about this, most will just dismiss it. But I thought perhaps there is someone out there who understands this.
Did I dismiss it? I have given you the right solution. Also, please read my entire previous reply. You are empowering these sense objects ("ayatana") by construing them into "supernormal beings".

Btw, how did you come to connect these "demons"? Were you involved with Christianity? Thanks
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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sentinel
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Re: how to deal with demons

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squizzlebizzle wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:24 am ......
Hi ,

I supposed DD didn't have any experience in this matter therefore he could not really provide a satisfying solution .
My suggestion seems more likely as a way out .
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DooDoot
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Re: how to deal with demons

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James Tan wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:45 amI supposed DD didn't have any experience in this matter therefore he could not really provide a satisfying solution .
An oppressed mind without defense cannot see clearly; until they realise the evil of the attacking. But, now, they are in "awe" of the attacks. Its like a child abused by their father. Because its their father abusing them, a part of the child allows the father to abuse because the child gives the father authority. Its like a wife abused by a husband. The wife cannot say "no" to the evil. The wife allows the evil because she thinks she must be "good" to maintain her marriage. I don't exactly know what is going on with the OP but these things happen all the time in religion. That is why the Buddha PROHIBITED monks to use psychic powers against laypeople. It is evil. The Buddha prohibited it. The Buddha did not teach to worship wrathful deities. The Buddha taught to use psychic wrath to harm people or destroy villages is an offense. The Buddha said He, the Buddha, does not harass anyone. The Buddha is 100% virtuous & harmless. We take refuge in the Buddha and not in Tibetan Mahayana wrathful deities. Therefore, the OP is at a "crossroads". The OP has a choice. The OP either: (i) worships wrathful demons like a theist so to continue suffering & enslavement; or (ii) takes refuge in the Buddha to throw off the yoke, stop the suffering & become free.
James Tan wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:45 amMy suggestion seems more likely as a way out .
I say your suggestion is wrong, dangerous and unBuddhist. I am confident my suggestions are effective & the right way. :smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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sentinel
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Re: how to deal with demons

Post by sentinel »

DooDoot wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:57 am .........
Thanks DD , if one needs to pull a tooth , whether the dentist is a Muslim , Christian , Hindu or whatever , as long as the job get done is no harm .
Btw , when you comment on vajrayana in speculation ( I guess you are not well versed in this sect ) , not a good idea though . No offense .


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DooDoot
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Re: how to deal with demons

Post by DooDoot »

James Tan wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:17 amThanks DD , if one needs to pull a tooth...
It won't pull the tooth. Worshipping a demon won't free the mind from the demon. Its not Buddhist. The Buddha prohibited it. Sounds like you, James Tan, might be on the wrong forum. There is a forum here for recommendation you provided. :smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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form
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Re: how to deal with demons

Post by form »

How does a demon look like?
sentinel
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Re: how to deal with demons

Post by sentinel »

DooDoot wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:48 am
James Tan wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:17 amThanks DD , if one needs to pull a tooth...
It won't pull the tooth. Worshipping a demon won't free the mind from the demon. Its not Buddhist. The Buddha prohibited it. Sounds like you, James Tan, might be on the wrong forum. There is a forum here for recommendation you provided. :smile:
If you can help poster to solve the problem then great but unfortunately the poster disagree with you .
I think you are mistaken , I only provide an alternative solution to the poster to solve a problem raised where you disagrees with the method . If the method does not work never mind . Try another one . Just like take one medicine doesn't work , then try alternative medicine .

But don't worry , disagreement happens all the time and everywhere .
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Volo
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Re: how to deal with demons

Post by Volo »

I also would recommend to stick to the Buddha's teaching with full confidence:
At Sāvatthī. “Bhikkhus, suppose there was a sharp-pointed spear, and a man would come along thinking: ‘I will bend back this sharp-pointed spear with my hand or fist, twist it out of shape, and twirl it around.’ What do you think bhikkhus, would it be possible for that man to do so?”

“No, venerable sir. For what reason? Because it is not easy to bend back that sharp-pointed spear with one’s hand or fist, to twist it out of shape, or to twirl it around. That man would only experience fatigue and vexation.”

“So too, bhikkhus, when a bhikkhu has developed and cultivated the liberation of mind by lovingkindness, made it a vehicle, made it a basis, stabilized it, exercised himself in it, and fully perfected it, if a nonhuman being thinks he can overthrow his mind, that nonhuman being would only experience fatigue and vexation.

“Therefore, bhikkhus, you should train yourselves thus: ‘We will develop and cultivate the liberation of mind by lovingkindness, make it our vehicle, make it our basis, stabilize it, exercise ourselves in it, and fully perfect it.’ Thus should you train yourselves.”
SN 20.5
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Volo
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Re: how to deal with demons

Post by Volo »

James Tan wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:40 am Another solution is find an adept teacher of vajrayana whom accomplished in "wrathful" deity meditation . But , one must has the sincerity , pure motivation , practise virtue and try to follow right path .
Have you yourself managed to overcome the problem with demons by the method you've recommended? If not, it's quite thoughtless to recommend it. It's like somebody would have a cancer and I would say "I have heard of a woman who was cured from cancer by praying to St. John". If you yourself tried it and it worked, then, sure, recommend. But if not, then only a recommendation from an experienced doctor (i.e. Buddha) would be blameless.
sentinel
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Re: how to deal with demons

Post by sentinel »

One could recommend whatever , i supposed the poster will determine which one is Applicable and Effective .
Did it ever occurs to you and think if dhamma does not work in this matter and let the poster suffers ?
If the Buddha's teachings does not work , can't solve the problem then what ?
Unless , one really encounter this sort of matter otherwise all the Theories remains fire in the air .
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Volo
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Re: how to deal with demons

Post by Volo »

James Tan wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:20 am One could recommend whatever , i supposed the poster will determine which one is Applicable and Effective .
Did it ever occurs to you and think if dhamma does not work in this matter and let the poster suffers ?
If the Buddha's teachings does not work , can't solve the problem then what ?
Unless , one really encounter this sort of matter otherwise all the Theories remains fire in the air .
You recommend something without having any experience in solving the problem by the method, you suggest. This I call thoughtless.
squizzlebizzle
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Re: how to deal with demons

Post by squizzlebizzle »

Volo wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:04 am I also would recommend to stick to the Buddha's teaching with full confidence:
At Sāvatthī. “Bhikkhus, suppose there was a sharp-pointed spear, and a man would come along thinking: ‘I will bend back this sharp-pointed spear with my hand or fist, twist it out of shape, and twirl it around.’ What do you think bhikkhus, would it be possible for that man to do so?”

“No, venerable sir. For what reason? Because it is not easy to bend back that sharp-pointed spear with one’s hand or fist, to twist it out of shape, or to twirl it around. That man would only experience fatigue and vexation.”

“So too, bhikkhus, when a bhikkhu has developed and cultivated the liberation of mind by lovingkindness, made it a vehicle, made it a basis, stabilized it, exercised himself in it, and fully perfected it, if a nonhuman being thinks he can overthrow his mind, that nonhuman being would only experience fatigue and vexation.

“Therefore, bhikkhus, you should train yourselves thus: ‘We will develop and cultivate the liberation of mind by lovingkindness, make it our vehicle, make it our basis, stabilize it, exercise ourselves in it, and fully perfect it.’ Thus should you train yourselves.”
SN 20.5
Thanks for this reply. It is helpful.

I was hoping for something more than this because it seems like a long term solution. Long term as in, several lifetimes from now when you are an Arahant and "fully perfected." In the short term I can tell you this does not alleviate attacks.
squizzlebizzle
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Re: how to deal with demons

Post by squizzlebizzle »

James Tan wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:20 am One could recommend whatever , i supposed the poster will determine which one is Applicable and Effective .
Did it ever occurs to you and think if dhamma does not work in this matter and let the poster suffers ?
If the Buddha's teachings does not work , can't solve the problem then what ?
Unless , one really encounter this sort of matter otherwise all the Theories remains fire in the air .
the "wrathful deities" in wrathful deity yoga refers to the wrathful form of Buddha-gods like Heruka. Pretas and asuras are not wrathful deities.

At least not based on my understanding of Vajrayana..
sentinel
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Re: how to deal with demons

Post by sentinel »

Volo wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:33 am
You recommend something without having any experience in solving the problem by the method, you suggest. This I call thoughtless.
Why question others when you should question yourself ! Do you yourself ever have any experience of demon ?!
How responsible are you then towards the poster if what you suggested does not work either ?

Do not think reading all the sutta then you know everything ! Do not Simply Assume !

That's why I said you are assuming something you don't understand .

My younger brother had this type of problem for many years , we took him to doctors , physicians and some other specialists .
Met with Theravada monks whom suggested to follow as what DD and you said in the sutta but to no avail .

At the end someone recommended us to meet a Tibetan teacher whom finally able to solve the problem . Otherwise , I will not Simply suggest to the poster .

Sometimes , I wonder if all those follows sutta thinks highly of themselves that they knows everything in the world or universe .
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Re: how to deal with demons

Post by Dhammanando »

squizzlebizzle wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:37 am The only practice I've found in the suttas about how to deal with this is metta.
There is also the petitioning of the forty-one devas, yakkhas and gandhabbas, as described in the Āṭānāṭiya Sutta:
“‘Now, dear Sir, whatever non-human beings—be they male yakkha or female yakkha or yakkha boy or yakkha girl or yakkha minister or yakkha councillor or yakkha messenger or male gandhabba or female gandhabba or gandhabba boy or gandhabba girl or gandhabba minister or gandhabba councillor or gandhabba messenger or male kumbhaṇḍa or female kumbhaṇḍa or kumbhaṇḍa boy or kumbhaṇḍa girl or kumbhaṇḍa minister or kumbhaṇḍa councillor or kumbhaṇḍa messenger or male nāga or female nāga or nāga boy or nāga girl or nāga minister or nāga councillor or nāga messenger—with a wicked mind should come near a monk or a nun or a layman or a laywoman while they are going, or stand near while they are standing, or sit near while they are sitting, or lie near while they are lying, then to these yakkhas, great yakkhas, generals, great generals, one should call out, one should shout out, one should cry out: “This yakkha has seized me, this yakkha has grabbed me, this yakkha annoys me, this yakkha harasses me, this yakkha hurts me, this yakkha injures me, this yakkha will not release me.” To which yakkhas, great yakkhas, generals, and great generals?

“‘Inda, Soma, and Varuṇa,
Bhāradvāja, Pajāpati,
Candana, and Kāmaseṭṭha,
Kinnughaṇḍu, and Nighaṇḍu,
Panāda, and Opamañña,
and Mātali, the gods’ charioteer.

“‘The gandhabbas Citta and Sena,
the kings Nala and Janesabha,
Sātāgira, Hemavata,
Puṇṇaka, Karatiya, Guḷa,

“‘Sīvaka, and Mucalinda,
Vessāmitta, Yugandhara,
Gopāla, and Suppagedha,
Hiri, Netti, and Mandiya,

“‘Pañcālacaṇḍa, Ālavaka,
Pajjuna, Sumana, Sumukha, Dadhīmukha,
Maṇi, Māṇi, Cara, Dīgha,
together with Serissaka

“‘Then to these yakkhas, great yakkhas, generals, and great generals, one should call out, one should shout out, one should cry out: “This yakkha has seized me, this yakkha has grabbed me, this yakkha annoys me, this yakkha harasses me, this yakkha hurts me, this yakkha injures me, this yakkha will not release me.” This, dear Sir, is the Āṭānāṭiyā protection, for the monks’, nuns’, laymen’s, and laywomen’s guard, protection, freedom from harm, and comfortable living.”

https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/dn32
squizzlebizzle wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:37 amDoes anyone have any experience overcoming this problem?
I've never myself been troubled by any kind of amanussa — perhaps because I recite the Āṭānāṭiya Sutta once a week. However, in Thailand I have often been requested to take part in exorcism ceremonies for haunted houses, haunted rice fields and haunted people (most often women who've been having recurrent bad dreams and decided that ghosts are responsible for them). The commonest procedure with haunted people is to wrap them up in a white cloth, as one would with a corpse, and then perform a normal funeral service. This is supposed to fool the ghost into thinking that the woman's dead, so it will go away and bother someone else. It seems that this does usually have the desired effect of ending the bad dreams.

With the haunted houses and rice fields the ceremony is usually a lengthy paritta recital, with the Āṭānāṭiya Sutta (either in full or just the section starting vipasissa namatthu...) taking pride of place.

Perhaps the best thing would be to start by yelling out to Inda, Soma, Varuṇa and the rest of the gang whenever the ghost makes its presence felt. If that doesn't work then consult the monks at your local temple.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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