Wat Dhammakaya

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
slimdabuddhist
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Re: Dhammakaya defector slams scandal-hit abbot [Re: Wat Dhammakaya]

Post by slimdabuddhist »

Kumara wrote:
ancientbuddhism wrote:Police ponder legal action in abbot ordeal
bangkokpost.com wrote:Police are expected to take legal action against anyone in charge of Wat Phra Dhammakaya for allegedly sheltering Phra Dhammajayo if the latter turns out to be staying at the temple and fails to report...
Turn him over! ... or we'll say 'Turn him over!' again. yeahright :coffee:
Assuming you are who I think you are, bhante, I've always marveled at your delicious brand of humour.

Btw, I think this relevant interview hasn't been introduced here yet:
EXCLUSIVE: Dhammakaya defector slams scandal-hit abbot
http://bk.asia-city.com/city-living/new ... -hit-abbot
Oh, keep in mind, ven. kumara (if you are a monk), they(WDP supporters) will try to discredit you. Since it is an interview with someone they hate most mano lao, they'll continue to try to slander those who oppose them.
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Kumara
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Re: Dhammakaya defector slams scandal-hit abbot [Re: Wat Dhammakaya]

Post by Kumara »

slimdabuddhist wrote:Oh, keep in mind, ven. kumara (if you are a monk), they(WDP supporters) will try to discredit you. Since it is an interview with someone they hate most mano lao, they'll continue to try to slander those who oppose them.
I don't think they'll bother with me. We can take that as a sign as he's on something. If he's just a loony blabbing nonsense, why would they attack him so viciously?

Btw, I've wondered: If he is just a loony blabbing nonsense, why have they not sued him for defamation yet? :thinking:
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The purpose of Dhamma learning is to gain freedom, not accumulate knowledge.
jameswang
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Former follower recalls his “riches to rags” story after being inducted to Dhammakaya sect

Post by jameswang »

Something truly educational:
Former follower recalls his “riches to rags” story after being inducted to Dhammakaya sect
http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/former ... kaya-sect/

Not sure why the photo link is broken there, but I found it plus other photos of the guy here: http://www.naewna.com/local/248498

Gutsy fellow. Hope others like him will be motivated to speak out.
chownah
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Re: Former follower recalls his “riches to rags” story after being inducted to Dhammakaya sect

Post by chownah »

jameswang wrote:Something truly educational:
Former follower recalls his “riches to rags” story after being inducted to Dhammakaya sect
http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/former ... kaya-sect/

Not sure why the photo link is broken there, but I found it plus other photos of the guy here: http://www.naewna.com/local/248498

Gutsy fellow. Hope others like him will be motivated to speak out.
Seems he was kind of foolish and made some bad decisions....for which I think he should blame himself.
I could be wrong because I have not red the article. Does his arm show red marks from the twisting?
chownah
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samseva
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Re: Former follower recalls his “riches to rags” story after being inducted to Dhammakaya sect

Post by samseva »

chownah wrote:
jameswang wrote:Something truly educational:
Former follower recalls his “riches to rags” story after being inducted to Dhammakaya sect[/b]
http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/former ... kaya-sect/

Not sure why the photo link is broken there, but I found it plus other photos of the guy here: http://www.naewna.com/local/248498

Gutsy fellow. Hope others like him will be motivated to speak out.
Seems he was kind of foolish and made some bad decisions....for which I think he should blame himself.
I could be wrong because I have not red the article. Does his arm show red marks from the twisting?
chownah
Read the article.

And sects pry on naïve and easily-influenced people. It doesn't absolve them from responsibility not one bit.
ManEagle
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Re: Former follower recalls his “riches to rags” story after being inducted to Dhammakaya sect

Post by ManEagle »

samseva wrote:And sects pry on naïve and easily-influenced people. It doesn't absolve them from responsibility not one bit.
Having been married to a Thai for not far short of 10 years now and having met many other Thais in that time I am of the firm opinion that "naive and easily-influenced" (or gullible) are pretty apt descriptions of many Thai people. I wouldn't go as far as to paint them as all being like this but I can certainly say that my wife has at times been fooled by many things (especially on the net) that have turned out to be untrue or hoaxes. This is purely based upon my own personal experiences. I am in no way purporting to be an expert onThai mentality but all the same I am not surprised to hear about stories of Thai people being sucked into the Dhammakaya mentality of donate what you can in the promise of improving your life and paving your way to Buddhist heaven. This aspect of any religion makes me sick.
chownah
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Re: Former follower recalls his “riches to rags” story after being inducted to Dhammakaya sect

Post by chownah »

samseva wrote:
chownah wrote:
jameswang wrote:Something truly educational:
Former follower recalls his “riches to rags” story after being inducted to Dhammakaya sect[/b]
http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/former ... kaya-sect/

Not sure why the photo link is broken there, but I found it plus other photos of the guy here: http://www.naewna.com/local/248498

Gutsy fellow. Hope others like him will be motivated to speak out.
Seems he was kind of foolish and made some bad decisions....for which I think he should blame himself.
I could be wrong because I have not red the article. Does his arm show red marks from the twisting?
chownah
Read the article.

And sects pry on naïve and easily-influenced people. It doesn't absolve them from responsibility not one bit.
Give me the highlights.
chownah
chownah
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Re: Former follower recalls his “riches to rags” story after being inducted to Dhammakaya sect

Post by chownah »

ManEagle wrote:..........
............ I am in no way purporting to be an expert onThai mentality but all the same I am not surprised to hear about stories of Thai people being sucked into the Dhammakaya mentality of donate what you can in the promise of improving your life and paving your way to Buddhist heaven. This aspect of any religion makes me sick.
Donating to the temple what you can in the promise of improving your life and paving your way to buddhist heaven is to a great extent what thai buddhism is all about and from what I gather from hearing what other people say about other places in asia it is what asian buddhism is to a great extent. If this makes you sick don't just hang it onto dhammakaya.....hang it onto a large segment of thai society.
With over a million followers it is inevitable that a few will have a lack of proportion about how much to give....and in thailand that percentage will be larger than many westerners expect because giving to the temple is considered not only of religious benefit but of social benefit as well.
chownah
ManEagle
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by ManEagle »

I do wish they'd hurry up and get this Dhammajayo business sorted out soon. Just recently my wife has taken to chanting whenever she can. And she's got hold of some annoying YT video from Dhammakaya with chanting at twice the normal speed. Sounds like Pinkie & Perky chanting. It's driving me bloody mad! Apparently it's necessary to get as many chanting rounds in per hour because this is going to help their beloved abbot! (Or is it ex-abbot?). My mind boggles at some of the utter tosh they're being fed by the temple and its disciples.
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samseva
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Re: Former follower recalls his “riches to rags” story after being inducted to Dhammakaya sect

Post by samseva »

chownah wrote:
ManEagle wrote:..........
............ I am in no way purporting to be an expert onThai mentality but all the same I am not surprised to hear about stories of Thai people being sucked into the Dhammakaya mentality of donate what you can in the promise of improving your life and paving your way to Buddhist heaven. This aspect of any religion makes me sick.
Donating to the temple what you can in the promise of improving your life and paving your way to buddhist heaven is to a great extent what thai buddhism is all about and from what I gather from hearing what other people say about other places in asia it is what asian buddhism is to a great extent. If this makes you sick don't just hang it onto dhammakaya.....hang it onto a large segment of thai society.
With over a million followers it is inevitable that a few will have a lack of proportion about how much to give....and in thailand that percentage will be larger than many westerners expect because giving to the temple is considered not only of religious benefit but of social benefit as well.
chownah
Trying to paint Thai society and pretty much the East as a whole in bad light regarding religion (and general personality) is being biased. For any country or religion, there is a whole spectrum of people who study and practice the religion which those people follow, and some which only practice their religion superficially or, more precisely, socially. Pretty much for all religions, the largest portion of followers are people who don't know much about the teachings in and of themselves and follow rituals and social practiced activities more than anything else.

So, it's not just a Thai thing. Just look at how Christianity—or more precisely the church and its followers—evolved over the past few millenniums, it's not that different. Giving money, going to heaven, bad priests, blind faith, ecclesial power, followers who don't even understand or study the teachings—not that different, no?
chownah
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Re: Former follower recalls his “riches to rags” story after being inducted to Dhammakaya sect

Post by chownah »

samseva wrote:
chownah wrote:
ManEagle wrote:..........
............ I am in no way purporting to be an expert onThai mentality but all the same I am not surprised to hear about stories of Thai people being sucked into the Dhammakaya mentality of donate what you can in the promise of improving your life and paving your way to Buddhist heaven. This aspect of any religion makes me sick.
Donating to the temple what you can in the promise of improving your life and paving your way to buddhist heaven is to a great extent what thai buddhism is all about and from what I gather from hearing what other people say about other places in asia it is what asian buddhism is to a great extent. If this makes you sick don't just hang it onto dhammakaya.....hang it onto a large segment of thai society.
With over a million followers it is inevitable that a few will have a lack of proportion about how much to give....and in thailand that percentage will be larger than many westerners expect because giving to the temple is considered not only of religious benefit but of social benefit as well.
chownah
Trying to paint Thai society and pretty much the East as a whole in bad light regarding religion (and general personality) is being biased. For any country or religion, there is a whole spectrum of people who study and practice the religion which those people follow, and some which only practice their religion superficially or, more precisely, socially. Pretty much for all religions, the largest portion of followers are people who don't know much about the teachings in and of themselves and follow rituals and social practiced activities more than anything else.

So, it's not just a Thai thing. Just look at how Christianity—or more precisely the church and its followers—evolved over the past few millenniums, it's not that different. Giving money, going to heaven, bad priests, blind faith, ecclesial power, followers who don't even understand or study the teachings—not that different, no?
Since I am certainly not "Trying to paint Thai society and pretty much the East as a whole in bad light regarding religion (and general personality)" I guess you like my post and are just emphasizing the point I am making. Is that right? I agree with everything you are saying but that first sentence makes me think that you are disagreeing with my post and have misconstrued what I posted.
chownah
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samseva
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Re: Former follower recalls his “riches to rags” story after being inducted to Dhammakaya sect

Post by samseva »

chownah wrote:
samseva wrote:Trying to paint Thai society and pretty much the East as a whole in bad light regarding religion (and general personality) is being biased. For any country or religion, there is a whole spectrum of people who study and practice the religion which those people follow, and some which only practice their religion superficially or, more precisely, socially. Pretty much for all religions, the largest portion of followers are people who don't know much about the teachings in and of themselves and follow rituals and social practiced activities more than anything else.

So, it's not just a Thai thing. Just look at how Christianity—or more precisely the church and its followers—evolved over the past few millenniums, it's not that different. Giving money, going to heaven, bad priests, blind faith, ecclesial power, followers who don't even understand or study the teachings—not that different, no?
Since I am certainly not "Trying to paint Thai society and pretty much the East as a whole in bad light regarding religion (and general personality)" I guess you like my post and are just emphasizing the point I am making. Is that right? I agree with everything you are saying but that first sentence makes me think that you are disagreeing with my post and have misconstrued what I posted.
chownah
No, I don't think what you said correctly represents Thai people and Thailand. And I was saying that you were painting Thai society in a bad light because your post was in line with almost all of your other posts regarding Thailand, which are mostly on the more negative and critical side.
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mikenz66
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by mikenz66 »

I took Chownah's post as simply presenting some aspect of practice in SE Asia that are quite prevalent. If more people had a better idea of the breadth of practices and attitudes that exist there, they might have a more balanced appreciation of what a living Buddhist culture is like.

As I've pointed out frequently elsewhere, looking just as some of the surface aspect practices of Asian people and assuming that there is no substance to be found it would be painting the societies in a bad light, but denying those practices exist is simply unrealistic.

Returning to the point of this thread. I'm not an apologist for Dhammakaya, and there do seem to be some serious problems with the organisation, but I think Chownah was trying to point out that singling out Dhammakaya supporters as being completely different from others is not accurate.

:anjali:
Mike
Turmeric
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Turmeric »

ManEagle wrote:I do wish they'd hurry up and get this Dhammajayo business sorted out soon. Just recently my wife has taken to chanting whenever she can. And she's got hold of some annoying YT video from Dhammakaya with chanting at twice the normal speed. Sounds like Pinkie & Perky chanting. It's driving me bloody mad! Apparently it's necessary to get as many chanting rounds in per hour because this is going to help their beloved abbot! (Or is it ex-abbot?). My mind boggles at some of the utter tosh they're being fed by the temple and its disciples.
Your wife is doing a good thing and you should try to avoid hurting her by making her lose faith. If you love her then you should encourage her to meditate more, go to the temple more, and chant more.

Anyways. For everyone here. Here is a cool preaching from Phramongkulthepmuni the founder of the Dhammakaya lineage

We are not stupid people who cannot tell the difference between what's right and what's wrong! Why should we tell lies in order to boost our self-aggrandizement in the eyes of others? They only accuse us because they don't know the Dhammakaya for themselves. They know neither the place where Dhammakaya exists, nor the meaning of the word itself! This ignorance can be the only reason why they are so misguided to complain about us who are forthright and sincere in teaching from our own true experience. When ignorant people who don't know the real doctrine of the Lord Buddha attack our meditation technique, they cannot upset the truth but will succeed only in undermining the faith of weak-minded people. The real Jewel of the Buddha's teaching is ever shining and only the wise can look upon it in true admiration. The results of the truth are derived entirely from the meditators own experience not from doctrinal study. At Wat paknam the monks in my care even when eating and sleeping do nothing in their lives but practice meditation. We talk together about what we have achieved and we are tireless in encouraging others to do good. We do not advertise ourselves in newspapers but our Fame relies solely on our good reputation but even in spite of the virtue of our Temple people still come to slander us, behavior that will ultimately only cause more trouble for themselves. We don't ask people to pay for the meditation teaching they receive at the temple. If we reach the truth and guide people in the right way, then in the end skill and meditation will triumph over slander. I am not upset by all this controversy because Dhammakaya is the truth of Buddhism. It is real. It will appear to all those who attain that level of consciousness. My conviction in the veracity of Buddhism is unshakable- Phramongkulthepmuni
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chownah
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Re: Former follower recalls his “riches to rags” story after being inducted to Dhammakaya sect

Post by chownah »

samseva wrote:
chownah wrote:
samseva wrote:Trying to paint Thai society and pretty much the East as a whole in bad light regarding religion (and general personality) is being biased. For any country or religion, there is a whole spectrum of people who study and practice the religion which those people follow, and some which only practice their religion superficially or, more precisely, socially. Pretty much for all religions, the largest portion of followers are people who don't know much about the teachings in and of themselves and follow rituals and social practiced activities more than anything else.

So, it's not just a Thai thing. Just look at how Christianity—or more precisely the church and its followers—evolved over the past few millenniums, it's not that different. Giving money, going to heaven, bad priests, blind faith, ecclesial power, followers who don't even understand or study the teachings—not that different, no?
Since I am certainly not "Trying to paint Thai society and pretty much the East as a whole in bad light regarding religion (and general personality)" I guess you like my post and are just emphasizing the point I am making. Is that right? I agree with everything you are saying but that first sentence makes me think that you are disagreeing with my post and have misconstrued what I posted.
chownah
No, I don't think what you said correctly represents Thai people and Thailand. And I was saying that you were painting Thai society in a bad light because your post was in line with almost all of your other posts regarding Thailand, which are mostly on the more negative and critical side.
I have lived in thailand for over ten years and have a reasonably good idea about the concept of "tam boon" which means "make merit". Are you familiar with the idea of making merit? It seems that you are of the view that making merit is not a significant part of thai buddhism...is that right?
Also, it seems that you are of the view that making merit is a bad thing....is that right? I claim that thai people do alot of merit making and that it is an important part of their buddhist experience but please note that I have not said anything to indicate that I think it is a bad thing. I don't judge other people's views on buddhism (usually) and it is you that seems to be making the value judgement....but I very well may be wrong and have misconstued your views on this.
Today my wife's cousin will enter the monkhood probably for a week or two. He is doing this because his life hasn't been going well and he hopes that being a monk for awhile will improve his circumstances.
Also today my wife and her siblings will host a gathering to make merit for their recently departed mother. The purpose is to make merit for her.....and also doing good things for one's mother is also seen as a way to make merit for oneself.
Making merit is a very popular thing to do in thailand it seems.

chownah
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