What is an Arahant?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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ihrjordan
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Re: What is an Arahant?

Post by ihrjordan »

form wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:52 am Can an arahat be not under the label of buddhist?
YES
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ihrjordan
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Re: What is an Arahant?

Post by ihrjordan »

In fact there are no arahant buddhists at all. That would be wrong grasp at self/not self which an arahant has abandoned...surely you're following me
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retrofuturist
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Re: What is an Arahant?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
ihrjordan wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:47 pm
form wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:52 am Can an arahat be not under the label of buddhist?
YES
Outside the label perhaps, but not outside this dispensation.
MN 11 wrote:"In this Dhamma and Discipline the Noble Eightfold Path is found, and in it alone are found also the true recluses of the four degrees. Outside this Dispensation the four types of enlightened individuals are not to be found. The doctrines of others are devoid of true recluses."
Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
form
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Re: What is an Arahant?

Post by form »

retrofuturist wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:02 pm Greetings,
ihrjordan wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:47 pm
form wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:52 am Can an arahat be not under the label of buddhist?
YES
Outside the label perhaps, but not outside this dispensation.
MN 11 wrote:"In this Dhamma and Discipline the Noble Eightfold Path is found, and in it alone are found also the true recluses of the four degrees. Outside this Dispensation the four types of enlightened individuals are not to be found. The doctrines of others are devoid of true recluses."
Metta,
Paul. :)
Hello retro,
By this dispension, is it correct to say it is the four noble truths?
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retrofuturist
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Re: What is an Arahant?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Form,
form wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:16 pm Hello retro,
By this dispension, is it correct to say it is the four noble truths?
I believe "dispensation" refers to the buddhasāsana

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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salayatananirodha
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Re: What is an Arahant?

Post by salayatananirodha »

budo wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:16 pm
salayatananirodha wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:08 pm budo: which sutta is that
Found it
Mahanama, that very mental quality[2] is what is unabandoned within you so that there are times when the mental quality of greed... the mental quality of aversion... the mental quality of delusion invades your mind and remains.[3] For if that mental quality were abandoned in you, you would not live the household life and would not partake of sensuality. It's because that mental quality is not abandoned in you that you live the household life and partake of sensuality.
-MN 14

So I don't know if Mahanama is a non-return path trying to attain non-return fruit, or a once-returner fruit trying to attian non-return path.
well, this is not how i read it and it didnt make a clear case to me that a 'lay arahant' must ordain or that a lay person can be an arahant
but definitely a householder can be a nonreturner
the only lay disciple who i know of in early buddhist texts is bāhiya, but he lived an ascetic lifestyle and had intention to ordain
the translation you shared from was worded unclearly for me; i instead used this one http://obo.genaud.net/dhamma-vinaya/pts ... rn.pts.htm
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-conte ... _Heart.pdf
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
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ihrjordan
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Re: What is an Arahant?

Post by ihrjordan »

Point is, It doesn't matter what you call it. The Buddha was the Great doctor. Able to cure all diseases of both body and mind. He didn't create true dhamma. He preserved it (Vishnu) I've met christians that live nobler lives than some buddhists I've encountered. Who would you say is closer to the goal? There are monastics who use money and store food. While hitchhiking around the U.S. I've encountered people who have given up money, don't wear shoes and willingly abide homeless most perfectly lucid. I myself lived an intentionally homeless life for most of 2018 leaving at one point towards California from Ohio with less than 2.00$ in my pocket. Living off donations, Stuff that I found, bearing the elements and searching for true happiness. My search is over. Just because they don't wear the label "buddhist" does that mean they are worse off than the fat monastic? Please... :thinking:

I write all this because those with eyes will see. Those who need to read it will read it. The Demon Age (Kali Yuga) is just about over. The Sun has returned. Ignorance will once again be vanquished. Are all of you ready? Shiva (The destroyer is almost at full power ;) and we will all be responsible for our pain. Remember that.
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cappuccino
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Re: What is an Arahant?

Post by cappuccino »

ihrjordan wrote: I write all this because those with eyes will see.
it is appreciated
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bridif1
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Re: What is an Arahant?

Post by bridif1 »

ihrjordan wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:20 pm I write all this because those with eyes will see. Those who need to read it will read it. The Demon Age (Kali Yuga) is just about over. The Sun has returned. Ignorance will once again be vanquished. Are all of you ready? Shiva (The destroyer is almost at full power ;) and we will all be responsible for our pain. Remember that.
Hi Ihrjordan!

What kind of reactions do you expect to see if you come to a forum claming huge things (you being sure about who's and who's not an arahant, Buddha being a reincarnation of Vishnu, and the implicit idea of you being an arahant) without any evidence?

What's the point of threating us with a divine punishment?

What kind of answer were you expecting to see?

What's the purpose of you, coming here, preaching and judging buddhist in general and forum members?

If you want a healthy debate, there are other, more productive ways to do it.

Kind regards!
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Re: What is an Arahant?

Post by form »

retrofuturist wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:23 pm Greetings Form,
form wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:16 pm Hello retro,
By this dispension, is it correct to say it is the four noble truths?
I believe "dispensation" refers to the buddhasāsana

Metta,
Paul. :)
Hello sir,
Can arahat talk about the dhamma without buddhist jargons?
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ihrjordan
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Re: What is an Arahant?

Post by ihrjordan »

This is an Arahant.

"Health is not just the absence of sickness. It is defined as ‘prasannatmendriyamanah’ – physical, mental, and spiritual health where mind and spirit are in a state of prasanna (a content, clear, and serene). The key to health is a complete psychosomatic equilibrium which makes it essential for us to be aware of the elementary rules and laws of living. This healthcare involves the entire being at its optimal physical and psychological levels in samyaka yoga (adequate contact or association), together with kala (season), artha (sensory modalities) and karma (actions), and is the main definition of health."

https://trueayurveda.wordpress.com/2018 ... at-entail/

I am not an arahant but i am Sattva-Rajas. Im not the only one i assure you.
Now ask yourself if you would recognize the highest anagami if you were talking to him on a buddhist discussion board. (Nataraja)
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bridif1
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Re: What is an Arahant?

Post by bridif1 »

ihrjordan wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:22 am This is an Arahant.
Hi again!

So, are you freely and arbitrarily redefining what an Arahant is?

The suttas seem to state that an Arahant is one without burdens, free from the fetters that bind to Samsara and clean from the taints that perpetuate dukkha.
I'm not sure if health is necessarily related to what an Arahant is.

Kind regards!
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cappuccino
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Re: What is an Arahant?

Post by cappuccino »

syncretism
noun
the combining or uniting of different religions, cultures, or schools of thought.
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khaaan
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Re: What is an Arahant?

Post by khaaan »

"arahant" can be defined in multiple ways based on the unique attributes of arahants as given in the texts. For example: arahants - and only arahants - have eradicated the "five hindrances".
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: What is an Arahant?

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

bridif1 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:58 pm
budo wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:03 pm Nor do they speak out against the suttas like Buddhadasa does.
Hi budo!

I've not written in the thread against Buddhadasa, because everything has been said already.
But as this is a whole new thread, I feel the urge to state that I think your words are misleading.

Buddhadasa did not speak against the suttas.
He was doing the equivalent to Jesus criticizing the Pharisees for not understanding the spirit of their laws.

You may possess a thousand copies of the nikayas, you might have read them all, a thousand time each, but if the mind is not ready and the factor have not been cultivated enough, no knowledge is assured.

Think about scholars who may have read a lot suttas hundreds of times.
Can you assume they are all stream-winners?
I think you can't, because some of them may be reading suttas just as an archeological/historical/textual piece.

That's what I understood in the Buddhadasa's quote:
If put side to side, it is better to investigate suffering diligently by yourself than to have the suttas and getting nothing from them.

That means in no way that suttas are to be rejected.

Kind regards!
Great post.
Indeed, my friend. :anjali:
Without resistance in all four directions,
content with whatever you get,
enduring troubles with no dismay,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
But if they hit you with a stick...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a knife.'..."
"But if they hit you with a knife...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't take my life with a sharp knife.'..."
SN35.88
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