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Why does Sotappana assure no lower life?

Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:58 am
by SarathW
Why does Sotappana assure no lower life?
The question is why elimination three lower fetters so much powerful?
What is the relation of lower realms to three lower fetters?

Re: Why does Sotappana assure no lower life?

Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:05 am
by budo
Holding wrong views leads to wrong action, wrong action leads to bad karma.

Take for example sensual hedonists and nihilists who believe there is no god, nor karma, nor consequences, and so nothing matters. They may not kill humans in fear of social repercussions but if they can commit an offense without getting in trouble they may do so. Just look at China or the soviet union, they have no qualms about killing people, even using kids for organ harvesting.

Some religions hold the view that killing beings is even a good thing, like a form of sacrifice or removing enemies of their religion.

And of course that's not even getting in greed, like the countless people who cheat, abuse, or kill over "love", sex, money, etc..

Re: Why does Sotappana assure no lower life?

Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:55 am
by Srilankaputra
Because they have placed their feet firmly and unshakably upon the Noble eight fold path or they have entered the stream which flows strait to nibbana whith perhaps mooring places in between.

Sakkaya ditti is the first and the most powerful fetter. The first veil of ignorance pulled over our faces. Making us blind to the path and true nature of the khandhas.

imo

Re: Why does Sotappana assure no lower life?

Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:37 pm
by cappuccino
because their greed, hatred, delusion isn't enough to sink to a lower realm

Re: Why does Sotappana assure no lower life?

Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:44 pm
by Jerafreyr
Breaking the supports that hold up the roof of an illusory self is what causes karma to no longer stick. Once you experience the moment when you are free from self you receive the assurance of the eightfold path. You may fall back into patterns of creating karma but they will mostly be good. At this point you are incapable of regressing into lower paths and are destined to be called an awakened one.

Re: Why does Sotappana assure no lower life?

Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:43 pm
by budo
Jerafreyr wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:44 pm Breaking the supports that hold up the roof of an illusory self is what causes karma to no longer stick. Once you experience the moment when you are free from self you receive the assurance of the eightfold path. You may fall back into patterns of creating karma but they will mostly be good. At this point you are incapable of regressing into lower paths and are destined to be called an awakened one.
:goodpost:

Re: Why does Sotappana assure no lower life?

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:35 am
by SarathW
Jerafreyr wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:44 pm Breaking the supports that hold up the roof of an illusory self is what causes karma to no longer stick. Once you experience the moment when you are free from self you receive the assurance of the eightfold path. You may fall back into patterns of creating karma but they will mostly be good. At this point you are incapable of regressing into lower paths and are destined to be called an awakened one.
Sotapanna or Even an Arhant can experience certain bad Kamma.
What Sotapanna assures is free from lower life. (Apaya) In other words, he will be free from the bad Kamma which he was done in the past which will take him to lower life.

Re: Why does Sotappana assure no lower life?

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:00 am
by thepea
Annicca has been activated, sotapanna cannot experience the states of woe as capable before annicca has been activated. If sotapanna sinks close to this states awareness of the deathless will present, elevating the vibration of individuals.
For non sotapanna annicca is not firmly established, may enter these fields of lower vibratory field and remain for some time.

Re: Why does Sotappana assure no lower life?

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:03 am
by SarathW
thepea wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:00 am Annicca has been activated, sotapanna cannot experience the states of woe as capable before annicca has been activated. If sotapanna sinks close to this states awareness of the deathless will present, elevating the vibration of individuals.
For non sotapanna annicca is not firmly established, may enter these fields of lower vibratory field and remain for some time.
Do you mean Anicca has been realised?

Re: Why does Sotappana assure no lower life?

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:17 am
by thepea
SarathW wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:03 am
thepea wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:00 am Annicca has been activated, sotapanna cannot experience the states of woe as capable before annicca has been activated. If sotapanna sinks close to this states awareness of the deathless will present, elevating the vibration of individuals.
For non sotapanna annicca is not firmly established, may enter these fields of lower vibratory field and remain for some time.
Do you mean Anicca has been realised?
Not simply realized, that is merely an insight knowledge, on the road to sotapanna.

Re: Why does Sotappana assure no lower life?

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:00 am
by SarathW
Sri Lankan monk Walpola Gotama gave a good answer in relation to a similar question.
Sotapanna has accumulated a vast wholesome mind when he attains Sotapanna state.
It is compared to a water a river in relation to water in a cup.
A cube of salt makes the water more salty in the cup than the cube of salt water in a river.
Ther relevant Sutta.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Re: Why does Sotappana assure no lower life?

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:56 am
by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
Jerafreyr wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:44 pm Breaking the supports that hold up the roof of an illusory self is what causes karma to no longer stick. Once you experience the moment when you are free from self you receive the assurance of the eightfold path. You may fall back into patterns of creating karma but they will mostly be good. At this point you are incapable of regressing into lower paths and are destined to be called an awakened one.
:goodpost:

Re: Why does Sotappana assure no lower life?

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:57 am
by SarathW
Yes it is a :goodpost:

Re: Why does Sotappana assure no lower life?

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:01 am
by DooDoot
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:56 am
Jerafreyr wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:44 pm Breaking the supports that hold up the roof of an illusory self is what causes karma to no longer stick. Once you experience the moment when you are free from self you receive the assurance of the eightfold path. You may fall back into patterns of creating karma but they will mostly be good. At this point you are incapable of regressing into lower paths and [you] are destined to be called an awakened one.
:goodpost:
SarathW wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:57 am Yes it is a :goodpost:
:roll: "You" = "good posting" about "not-self". "You" = "not-self" :roll:

Re: Why does Sotappana assure no lower life?

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:05 am
by SarathW
Sotapanna still thinks in terms of I and you.
Even Buddha use it as a convention.