mikenz66 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:36 am
Thanks. As he says: "
they may indeed have late features". Which is, of course, the point that Vens Analayo, Brahmali, etc have made.
Unlikely. Sujato said:
"the bulk of the content is pretty normal". Where as Vens Analayo, Brahmali, etc, give the impression or suspicion of suggesting the mundane right view is the "True Dhamma".
The Abhidhamma features are not the two sorts of Right View but the language found, such as: "
the thinking, directed thinking, resolve, mental fixity, mental transfixion, focused awareness & verbal fabrications " etc
I think if you can't discern the two sorts of Right View, you don't understand the suttas, because the mundane right view is written
many times in the suttas and is very mundane.
The Noble Right View is found in many chapters of suttas:
And what is right view that is noble, undefiled,
transcendent [
here], a factor of the path?
Katamā ca, bhikkhave, sammādiṭṭhi ariyā anāsavā
lokuttarā maggaṅgā?
It’s the wisdom—the
faculty of wisdom [
here],
the power of wisdom [
here], the
awakening factor of investigation of principles [
here], and
right view [
here] as a factor of the path—in one of noble mind and undefiled mind, who possesses the noble path and develops the noble path.
Yā kho, bhikkhave, ariyacittassa anāsavacittassa ariyamaggasamaṅgino ariyamaggaṃ bhāvayato paññā paññ
indriyaṃ paññā
balaṃ
dhammavicayasambojjhaṅgo sammādiṭṭhi maggaṅgaṃ—
It seems clear the mundane right view does not lead to Nibbana (even some of Analayo's beloved Agama appear to say it does):
And how does a good person have the view of a good person?
Kathañca, bhikkhave, sappuriso sappurisadiṭṭhi hoti?
It’s when a good person has such a view:
Idha, bhikkhave, sappuriso evaṃdiṭṭhi hoti:
‘There is meaning in giving, sacrifice, and offerings. There are fruits and results of good and bad deeds. There is an afterlife. There are duties to mother and father. There are beings reborn spontaneously. And there are ascetics and brahmins who are well attained and practiced, and who describe the afterlife after realizing it with their own insight.’
‘atthi dinnaṃ, atthi yiṭṭhaṃ, atthi hutaṃ, atthi sukatadukkaṭānaṃ kammānaṃ phalaṃ vipāko, atthi ayaṃ loko, atthi paro loko, atthi mātā, atthi pitā, atthi sattā opapātikā, atthi loke samaṇabrāhmaṇā sammaggatā sammāpaṭipannā ye imañca lokaṃ parañca lokaṃ sayaṃ abhiññā sacchikatvā pavedentī’ti.
That’s how a good person has the view of a good person.
Evaṃ kho, bhikkhave, sappuriso sappurisadiṭṭhi hoti. (7)
And how does a good person give the gifts of a good person?
Kathañca, bhikkhave, sappuriso sappurisadānaṃ deti?
It’s when a good person gives a gift carefully, with their own hand, and thoughtfully. They don’t give the dregs, and they give with consideration for consequences.
Idha, bhikkhave, sappuriso sakkaccaṃ dānaṃ deti, sahatthā dānaṃ deti, cittīkatvā dānaṃ deti, anapaviṭṭhaṃ dānaṃ deti, āgamanadiṭṭhiko dānaṃ deti.
That’s how a good person gives the gifts of a good person.
Evaṃ kho, bhikkhave, sappuriso sappurisadānaṃ deti. (8)
That good person—who has such good qualities, associates with good people, and has the intentions, counsel, speech, actions, views, and giving of a good person—
So, bhikkhave, sappuriso evaṃ saddhammasamannāgato, evaṃ sappurisabhatti, evaṃ sappurisacintī, evaṃ sappurisamantī, evaṃ sappurisavāco, evaṃ sappurisakammanto, evaṃ sappurisadiṭṭhi;
when their body breaks up, after death, is reborn in the place where good people are reborn.
evaṃ sappurisadānaṃ datvā kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā yā sappurisānaṃ gati tattha upapajjati.
And what is the place where good people are reborn?
Kā ca, bhikkhave, sappurisānaṃ gati?
A state of greatness among gods or humans.”
Devamahattatā vā manussamahattatā vā”ti.
That is what the Buddha said.
Idamavoca bhagavā.
Satisfied, the mendicants were happy with what the Buddha said.
Attamanā te bhikkhū bhagavato bhāsitaṃ abhinandunti.
https://suttacentral.net/mn110/en/sujato