What is nirvana/heaven?
What is nirvana/heaven?
Did buddha describe heaven in any way in case of yes how did he describe heaven?
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12876
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: What is nirvana/heaven?
The Thirty-one Planes of Existence
& the Beyond
& the Beyond
Beings in heaven enjoy varying degrees of jhanic bliss.Scattered throughout the suttas are references to as many as thirty-one distinct "planes" or "realms" of existence into which beings can be reborn during their long wandering through samsara. These range from the extraordinarily grim and painful hell realms all the way up to the most exquisitely refined and blissful heaven realms.
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12876
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: What is nirvana/heaven?
Nirvana:
It is the Unformed, the Unconditioned, the End,
the Truth, the Other Shore, the Subtle,
the Everlasting, the Invisible, the Undiversified,
Peace, the Deathless, the Blest, Safety,
the Wonderful, the Marvellous,
Nirvana, Purity, Freedom,
the Island,
the Refuge, the Beyond.
~ S 43.1-44
It is the Unformed, the Unconditioned, the End,
the Truth, the Other Shore, the Subtle,
the Everlasting, the Invisible, the Undiversified,
Peace, the Deathless, the Blest, Safety,
the Wonderful, the Marvellous,
Nirvana, Purity, Freedom,
the Island,
the Refuge, the Beyond.
~ S 43.1-44
Re: What is nirvana/heaven?
Nibbāna:
Also:Ud 1.10 wrote:Where water, earth,
fire, & wind
have no footing:
There the stars don't shine,
the sun isn't visible.
There the moon doesn't appear.
There darkness is not found.
And when a sage,
a brahman through sagacity,
has realized [this] for himself,
then from form & formless,
from bliss & pain,
he is freed.
SN 43.14-43 wrote:the truth …. the far shore … the subtle … the very difficult to see … the unaging … the stable … the undisintegrating … the unmanifest … the unproliferated… the peaceful … the deathless … the sublime … the auspicious … the secure …. the destruction of craving … the wonderful … the amazing … the unailing … the unailing state … Nibbāna … the unafflicted … dispassion … purity … freedom … the unadhesive … the island ... the shelter … the asylum … the refuge …
Sacca, Pāra, Nipuṇa, Sududdasa, Ajara, Dhuva, Apalokita, Anidassana, Nippapañca, Santa, Amata, Paṇita, Siva, Khema, Taṇhakkhaya, Acchariya, Abbhuta, Anītika, Anītikadhamma, Nibbāna, Abyāpajjha, Virāga, Suddhi, Mutti, Anālaya, Dīpa, Leṇa, Tāṇa, Saraṇa.
- salayatananirodha
- Posts: 1479
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:34 am
- Contact:
Re: What is nirvana/heaven?
heaven is a conditioned state of being, nibbāna is unconditioned. in heaven, contacts are usually pleasant, nibbāna is the cessation of contact
I host a sutta discussion via Zoom Sundays at 11AM Chicago time — message me if you are interested
Re: What is nirvana/heaven?
It is the end of this life, with no new becoming. Parinibbana is indistinguishable from the way an atheist, scientific materialist views biological death. This life is over, all that remains is the body. There is nothing further for your consciousness (i.e. it doesn't go into some heavenly or euphoric realm).
SN 12.51 wrote:“Suppose, bhikkhus, a man would remove a hot clay pot from a potter’s kiln and set it on smooth ground: its heat would be dissipated right there and potsherds would be left. So too, when he feels a feeling terminating with the body … terminating with life…. He understands: ‘With the breakup of the body, following the exhaustion of life, all that is felt, not being delighted in, will become cool right here; mere bodily remains will be left.’ “What do you think, bhikkhus, can a bhikkhu whose taints are destroyed generate a meritorious volitional formation, or a demeritorious volitional formation, or an imperturbable volitional formation?”
“No, venerable sir.”
“When there are utterly no volitional formations, with the cessation of volitional formations, would consciousness be discerned?” “No, venerable sir.”
“When there is utterly no consciousness, with the cessation of consciousness, would name-and-form be discerned?”
“No, venerable sir.”
“When there is utterly no name-and-form … no six sense bases … … no contact … no feeling … no craving … no clinging … no existence … no birth, with the cessation of birth, would aging-and-death be discerned?”
“No, venerable sir.”
“Good, good, bhikkhus! It is exactly so and not otherwise! Place faith in me about this, bhikkhus, resolve on this. Be free from perplexity and doubt about this. Just this is the end of suffering.”
Last edited by inyenzi on Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What is nirvana/heaven?
Source?
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.
Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.
Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12876
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: What is nirvana/heaven?
that's called annihilation isminyenzi wrote: There is nothing further for your consciousness
wronginyenzi wrote:doesn't go into some heavenly or euphoric realm
Re: What is nirvana/heaven?
Annihilationism is the belief that there exists an atman, which is destroyed at death. The cessation of an experience which is annata, is not annihilationism, since there exists nothing to be annihilated.cappuccino wrote:that's called annihilation ism
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12876
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: What is nirvana/heaven?
the doctrine of "non-self", that there is no unchanging, permanent selfinyenzi wrote:Annihilationism is the belief that there exists an atman, which is destroyed at death. The cessation of an experience which is anattā, is not annihilationism, since there exists nothing to be annihilated.cappuccino wrote:that's called annihilation ism
you take it too far……
On Self, No Self, and Not-self
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12876
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: What is nirvana/heaven?
unchanging self is extreme
no self is extreme
between extremes, is the middle way
no self is extreme
between extremes, is the middle way
Re: What is nirvana/heaven?
Which involves what, exactly? A changing self, that nevertheless persists on after death in an unconditioned heavenly realm? Sounds like a craving for further existence.cappuccino wrote:unchanging self is extreme
no self is extreme
between extremes, is the middle way
On my reading of the suttas, it seems clear that parinibbana is just the 5 aggregates (which are not self) coming to an end.
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12876
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: What is nirvana/heaven?
inyenzi wrote: On my reading of the suttas, it seems clear that parinibbana is just the 5 aggregates (which are not self) coming to an end.
Ananda Sutta: To AnandaIf I — being asked by Vacchagotta the wanderer if there is no self — were to answer that there is no self, that would be conforming with those brahmans & contemplatives who are exponents of annihilationism [the view that death is the annihilation of consciousness].
Re: What is nirvana/heaven?
What is this unconditioned heavenly realm you are talking about?
Rebirth in a Deva realm IS fueled by a craving for further existence.Sounds like a craving for further existence.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.
Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.
Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12876
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: What is nirvana/heaven?
heavenly realms are conditioned, Nirvana realm is unconditionedGrigoris wrote: What is this unconditioned heavenly realm you are talking about?