Universe and its constant change....purpose

[DooDoot]

Since the Buddha felt no need for there to be a creator God involved in the creation of our universe and everything is in a constant state of change.

The suttas say everything is formed from the elements (dhatu), which are many (refer to MN 115) but can be summarised as the six elements of earth, wind, fire, water, space & consciousness:

In dependence on the six elements the descent [emergence; development] of an embryo occurs

https://suttacentral.net/an3.61/en/bodhi

why would it be necessary to have a universe with such a variety of diverse and complex beings, planets and galaxies?

If God created the universe, why would it be necessary?

Since there would be no force or God behind all of creation according to Buddhism, what is the purpose of all contained in the universe?

There is no significant purpose of the universe. The things in the universe are simply it a state of perpetual creation and reproduction. For animal forms, they have a reproductive purpose to maintain their life & their offspring. This is the meaning of the word "dhamma", which means "to maintain", "to uphold", "to support", even "to survive". However, apart from maintaining life on an instinctual level, SN 22.95, for example, say ultimately, this creation is "hollow" and "insubstantial". Thus, in many suttas, it is taught to be dispassionate towards creation.

Would this be one of those questions the Buddha preferred to remain silent about?

In general, yes. However, the suttas (MN 29 & 30, for example), teach the purpose of the spiritual life is unshakeable freedom of mind but that is about it. In Buddhism, the purpose of human life is to be free from suffering and abide in peace. As for the universe, it contains many things that can promote suffering, such as birth, aging, illness, death, loss, earthquakes, hurricanes, mental defilements (lust, fear, anger, worry, etc). Of the purpose of the universe, it to make life difficult and challenging for us.

[justindesilva]

I don't think the Buddha necessarily said there was no creator, just that belief in one is not a requisite for following the path, so he declined to discuss the matter.

The reason for this is probably that you can spend a lot of time asking questions and not really getting any answers if you follow this line of reasoning. Why would a God allow for bone cancer? Who created God? Etc. Etc.

These questions don't have a satisfactory resolution and thus aren't going to lead you anywhere. The fact is that we are here now. We can ask why that might be all our lives and never get anywhere. It's better to spend your time examining your experience and dealing with the reality of suffering.

In relation to universe and constant change the only science that can explain is astronomy. Rules of astronomy with its rotation around its own axis and other rotations of moon around the earth and other planetary movements of solar system prove that constant change of all matter in the universe has a set pattern governed by set rules. It can also ultimately shown by sutta that kamma is an effect of morals of beings as explained in vasetta sutta. While constant change is a means of stability of the earth. We little realise that we are part and parcel of this constant change and that we too are changing moment to moment.
I have in fact written on this subject on a book form in title
" Morality through a telescope" that would be soon available free on internet.

[ToVincent]

Since the Buddha felt no need for there to be a creator God involved in the creation of our universe and everything is in a constant state of change. Why would it be necessary to have a universe with such a variety of diverse and complex beings, planets and galaxies?

First of all, Buddha never denied a "big Self", like the Atman/Ajo (the Unborn):

I ask, unknowing, those who know, the sages, as one all ignorant for sake of knowledge,
What was that One who in the Unborn's image hath stablished and fixed firm these worlds' six regions.
acikitvāñ cikituṣaś cid atra kavīn pṛcchāmi vidmane na vidvān
vi yas tastambha ṣaḻ imā rajāṁsy ajasya rūpe kim api svid ekam
RV. 1.164.06

“There is an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned,” - (atthi, bhikkhave, ajātaṃ abhūtaṃ akataṃ asaṅkhataṃ) - If, monks there were not that unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, you could not know an escape here from the born, become, made, and conditioned. But because there is an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, therefore you do know an escape from the born, become, made, and conditioned.”
(Ud 8.3)

https://justpaste.it/19m0u

What the universe has to do with this in Buddhism (and generally with the Indian philosophy) - and how can it be related to science?

We have to start first with a bit of lexicography about the "man" found in Ātman, Brahman and Dharman.
Man can have two usages:
1. Man forms primary substantives (कृत् kṛt) - principally action names (with accents on the root) - and agent names (with accents on the suffix).
(Making it improbable, afaik).
2. √ मन् Man
- to think , believe , imagine , suppose , conjecture (RV.)
- to think of (RV. - AV.)

आत्मन् Āt- √ मन् man
Somewhat meaning a "continuous, unremitting moving thought (conjecture/ignorance?) ".
Derived fr. [ an ] , to breathe - [ at ] , to move - [ vā ] , to blow.

बृह् Bṛh - √ मन् man
Somewhat meaning an "expanding & pervasive thought".
√ बृह् bṛh (linked to vṛdh).
- increase, expand (TS. Suśr. MBh.)
("But as far as the Word Brahman is concerned, there is no end". TS 7.3.1.4)

धृ Dhṛ - √ मन् man
Somewhat meaning an "actualized (made real) thought" .
√ धृ dhṛ:
- to begin , resolve upon , undertake (AV. ŚBr. ChUp.)
- continue living , exist (Br. MBh.)
- to hold , bear (also bring forth) , carry , maintain , undergo (RV.)
- to be borne ; so be firm , keep steady (RV.)

So what you would be concerned with, is the latter two. Viz. the expanding, actualized universe.

What does (late) science and its philosophy might have to say about the expansion of the universe, in this ("new") world of information ?

I suppose one should get a bit into David Layzer's theory:
http://www.informationphilosopher.com/i ... formation/
http://www.informationphilosopher.com/s ... _of_order/

To make it simpler, we are not only making little Greta (aka Pippi Långstrump) cry, by destroying her planet - we are also polluting the universe (don't tell her!).
Because it seems that this expansion and pollution of the universe; namely our papañcas, are just what is required for more "information".
(प्रपञ्च prapañca [pra-pañca] (√ pac , or pañc) - the expansion of the universe UP.) . https://justpaste.it/3f6gs

"Ignorant" sattas, I suppose.
.
.

[justindesilva]

Since the Buddha felt no need for there to be a creator God involved in the creation of our universe




So what you would be concerned with, is the latter two. Viz. the expanding, actualized universe.

What does (late) science and its philosophy might have to say about the expansion of the universe, in this ("new") world of information ?

I suppose one should get a bit into David Layzer's theory:
http://www.informationphilosopher.com/i ... formation/
http://www.informationphilosopher.com/s ... _of_order/

To make it simpler, we are not only making little Greta (aka Pippi Långstrump) cry, by destroying her planet - we are also polluting the universe (don't tell her!).
Because it seems that this expansion and pollution of the universe; namely our papañcas, are just what is required for more "information".
(प्रपञ्च prapañca [pra-pañca] (√ pac , or pañc) - the expansion of the universe UP.) . https://justpaste.it/3f6gs

"Ignorant" sattas, I suppose.
.
.j

TO Vincent has contributed facts from David Layzer. This information is greatly important to a fact which I believed but which I never wanted to put forward. This fact is that before the beginning of the present disturbed form of the universe there had been a universe of a perfect order. Yet due to a slight disturbance or weakness somewhere a form of correction or repair began. The first reaction for correction being heat the next apo Tejo vayo patavi as elements ( dhatu) began to be formed. Beings were formed as a part and parcel of this correcting journey and hence the facts of anatma.
To shortlist my belief I wish to say that Nirvana, is getting back to the initial state of the undisturbed universe.
I only hope that what I believe can be further justified.