We can't change the past. So isn't the past permanent?
We can't change the past. So isn't the past permanent?
We can't go back and change the past. So the past is permanent history isn't it? How does that fit in with impermanence, suffering, not-self and the Unconditioned?
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retrofuturist
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Re: We can't change the past. So isn't the past permanent?
Greetings,
Your assumption is that the past exists... there's no justification for that assumption.
What does arise is memory, recollection and thoughts associated with the past... these mental constructs have the ti-lakkhana.
Metta,
Paul.
Your assumption is that the past exists... there's no justification for that assumption.
What does arise is memory, recollection and thoughts associated with the past... these mental constructs have the ti-lakkhana.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: We can't change the past. So isn't the past permanent?
The fact that it is in the past means that it is impermanent. Past = no longer existing.
Re: We can't change the past. So isn't the past permanent?
If the past were permanent you can't grow old. You wouldn't be able to call it the "past"!
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
Re: We can't change the past. So isn't the past permanent?
Isn't that like George Orwell's 1984 where Winston Smith's office job was changing the past in the Ministry of Truth?
List of 150 Thanissaro Bhikkhu Facebook study groups on various topics
Thanissaro Bhikkhu's Dhamma Teaching Pure & Simple on MeWe the Facebook alternative
Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Karma & Rebirth on Blogger
Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Refreshing Breathing on Blogger
Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Equanimity on Blogger
Thanissaro Bhikkhu on the Ultimate Goal on Blogger
Thanissaro Bhikkhu's Dhamma Teaching Pure & Simple on MeWe the Facebook alternative
Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Karma & Rebirth on Blogger
Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Refreshing Breathing on Blogger
Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Equanimity on Blogger
Thanissaro Bhikkhu on the Ultimate Goal on Blogger
Re: We can't change the past. So isn't the past permanent?
The question should have read "So isn't the past permanent truth?" Thanissaro Bhikkhu translates anicca as inconstant not impermanent, so memories only momentarily arise and pass away even though in conventional truth there is a true history. Nibbana is ultimate truth. The fourth precept isn't a precept to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but to abstain from false speech, which means not tampering with memories which would stir up delusion in the mind.
List of 150 Thanissaro Bhikkhu Facebook study groups on various topics
Thanissaro Bhikkhu's Dhamma Teaching Pure & Simple on MeWe the Facebook alternative
Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Karma & Rebirth on Blogger
Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Refreshing Breathing on Blogger
Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Equanimity on Blogger
Thanissaro Bhikkhu on the Ultimate Goal on Blogger
Thanissaro Bhikkhu's Dhamma Teaching Pure & Simple on MeWe the Facebook alternative
Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Karma & Rebirth on Blogger
Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Refreshing Breathing on Blogger
Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Equanimity on Blogger
Thanissaro Bhikkhu on the Ultimate Goal on Blogger
Re: We can't change the past. So isn't the past permanent?
retrofuturist wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:28 am Greetings,
Your assumption is that the past exists... there's no justification for that assumption.
What does arise is memory, recollection and thoughts associated with the past... these mental constructs have the ti-lakkhana.
Metta,
Paul.
The impossibility of presentism due to the relativity of simultaneity lends credence to the block theory of time, in which the past and future exist right now.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: We can't change the past. So isn't the past permanent?
What Are False Memories?
Although memories seem to be a solid, straightforward sum of who people are, strong evidence suggests that memories are actually quite complex, subject to change, and often unreliable. Memories can be reconstructed as people age and also as their worldview changes. They can falsely recall childhood events, and through effective suggestion, can even create new false memories. They can be tricked into remembering events that never happened, or change the details of things that really did happen.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/ba ... e-memories
Although memories seem to be a solid, straightforward sum of who people are, strong evidence suggests that memories are actually quite complex, subject to change, and often unreliable. Memories can be reconstructed as people age and also as their worldview changes. They can falsely recall childhood events, and through effective suggestion, can even create new false memories. They can be tricked into remembering events that never happened, or change the details of things that really did happen.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/ba ... e-memories
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
Re: We can't change the past. So isn't the past permanent?
There would still be old age, sickness and death in a block time universe.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Spiny Norman
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Re: We can't change the past. So isn't the past permanent?
It seems like people have been debating these questions for some time!
https://suttacentral.net/kv1.8/en/aung-rhysdavids
https://suttacentral.net/kv1.8/en/aung-rhysdavids
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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Spiny Norman
- Posts: 10262
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
- Location: Andromeda looks nice
Re: We can't change the past. So isn't the past permanent?
Yes, with block theory the past would exist permanently, independent of memories.Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:16 amretrofuturist wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:28 am Greetings,
Your assumption is that the past exists... there's no justification for that assumption.
What does arise is memory, recollection and thoughts associated with the past... these mental constructs have the ti-lakkhana.
Metta,
Paul.
The impossibility of presentism due to the relativity of simultaneity lends credence to the block theory of time, in which the past and future exist right now.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Re: We can't change the past. So isn't the past permanent?
It's not the case that because we can't change something, it must be permanent.
We can't change solar eclipses or even the wrong views of people here on DW, but they are impermanent.
That might be why the Buddha used both impermanence and resistance to human agency as evidence of dukkha.
We can't change solar eclipses or even the wrong views of people here on DW, but they are impermanent.
That might be why the Buddha used both impermanence and resistance to human agency as evidence of dukkha.
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retrofuturist
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Re: We can't change the past. So isn't the past permanent?
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: We can't change the past. So isn't the past permanent?
What is called 'the past'? Aggregations of recollections, i.e. aggregates. If that 'past' appears to be different from the aggregates then that's like the self appearing to be different from the aggregates. Only a small distance to 'this is my past', 'this am I', 'this is my biography'.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Re: We can't change the past. So isn't the past permanent?
retrofuturist wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:24 am Greetings,
Perhaps "block theorists" are Sarvāstivādins?
Metta,
Paul.
Perhaps they were right?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”