Planes of humans and animals

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Alex123
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Re: Planes of humans and animals

Post by Alex123 »

OWEG wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:04 am Dear friends,

I am listening to an audio book about the human evolution. As in our science today we see the human evolved from the animal state being an higher developed animal, the following question arose in my mind:

Why did the Buddha categorize the human plane of existence as separated from the animal plane?

I ask because it seems, that from modern science point of view the difference between humans and animals are only gradually (like human animals). Not like the difference in matter between human and devas for example. Also in the Jatakata tales we have often very human-like thinking and talking animals.

Any further ideas on this?
There is a HUGE difference between humans and animals. Science looks, mostly, at the body and its evolution. Buddhism looks more at the mind. Mind is where the biggest difference lies. Humans are, generally, much more intelligent (IQ) than animals can ever be.

Humans can develop wisdom and escape samsara. Humans can develop vipassana, and panna. And much more.
Animals cannot.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."
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robertk
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Re: Planes of humans and animals

Post by robertk »

Alex123 wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:20 pm
OWEG wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:04 am Dear friends,

I am listening to an audio book about the human evolution. As in our science today we see the human evolved from the animal state being an higher developed animal, the following question arose in my mind:

Why did the Buddha categorize the human plane of existence as separated from the animal plane?

I ask because it seems, that from modern science point of view the difference between humans and animals are only gradually (like human animals). Not like the difference in matter between human and devas for example. Also in the Jatakata tales we have often very human-like thinking and talking animals.

Any further ideas on this?
There is a HUGE difference between humans and animals. Science looks, mostly, at the body and its evolution. Buddhism looks more at the mind. Mind is where the biggest difference lies. Humans are, generally, much more intelligent (IQ) than animals can ever be.

Humans can develop wisdom and escape samsara. Humans can develop vipassana, and panna. And much more.
Animals cannot.
Exactly. :sage: :sage:
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Planes of humans and animals

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

SteRo wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:10 pm ...
...
...
it is a categorical error to compare modern science and the Buddha's teachings.

Yes.
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sunnat
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Re: Planes of humans and animals

Post by sunnat »

An4.36 "... Dona, following the Blessed One's footprints, saw him sitting at the root of the tree: confident, inspiring confidence, his senses calmed, his mind calmed, having attained the utmost control & tranquility, tamed, guarded, his senses restrained, a naga. On seeing him, he went to him and said, "Master, are you a human being?"...

"No, brahman, I am not a human being."...

"Then what sort of being are you?"...

"Just like a red, blue, or white lotus — born in the water, grown in the water, rising up above the water — stands unsmeared by the water, in the same way I — born in the world, grown in the world, having overcome the world — live unsmeared by the world.

Remember me, brahman, as 'awakened.'
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confusedlayman
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Re: Planes of humans and animals

Post by confusedlayman »

Placidium wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:29 am
retrofuturist wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:53 am Greetings,
parietina wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:47 am Buddhism seems to accord human beings with a status that is thoroughly undeserved especially considering we are the most aggressive species on the planet and there are far more gentle animals more deserving of the Dhamma than ourselves.
If being gentle was the criteria for Dhamma capacity, then doves, slugs, butterflies and hamsters would be arahants. Perhaps you could review your perception of the realms, in accordance with actual potential and capability.

Metta,
Paul. :)
I see no reason why humans should have the monopoly on potential cognitive abilities. We are just a chance species of many so why should the Dhamma be reserved solely for humans? I perceive only one realm in which there is abundance of life and humans are just one part (a deleterious part, it could be argued) of the genetic library.
Skeptics and so called rationalist will say "Monk Gotoma using intellectual capabilities and merely based on reasoning he taught dhamma which is rational, scientific, can be validated by wise men" so some people can argue since he is teaching to humans he want to make humans follow teaching so he said urgency in human world is need so follow dhamma

but we buddhist should not think like above as its one way to rebiorn in hell... instead we should think "Gotama is endowed with direct knowledge and from that he speaks" hence unless u attain to direct knowledge u cant answer this thread accuratly.. if buddha said anything its because he knows things which are not seen by 5 sences at normally... hence he is special and worthy of respect..
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
2600htz
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Re: Planes of humans and animals

Post by 2600htz »

Hi:

Ony humans can talk 3 pages about this :rofl:

Regards.
bodhifollower
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Re: Planes of humans and animals

Post by bodhifollower »

OWEG wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:04 am Dear friends,

I am listening to an audio book about the human evolution. As in our science today we see the human evolved from the animal state being an higher developed animal, the following question arose in my mind:

Why did the Buddha categorize the human plane of existence as separated from the animal plane?

I ask because it seems, that from modern science point of view the difference between humans and animals are only gradually (like human animals). Not like the difference in matter between human and devas for example. Also in the Jatakata tales we have often very human-like thinking and talking animals.

Any further ideas on this?
Don't expect to get any answers about modern science in a Buddhist discussion forum. The Buddha's teaching is as it is. If it conflicts with modern science than perhaps modern science is wrong. I shall have no other teacher, I take to this my grave.
You should listen to an audio book about reincarnation instead. That would be better for your right knowledge friend. But Buddhism is science. He taught to be rational and develop wisdom and make sure things make sense for yourself. He said you should believe something unless you verify it for yourself as well.

Why did he perpetrate this idea? Because it makes it easy to understand the consequences of karma. The soul has to perform certain actions that are different to become and animal than a soul which becomes a human. It's on the level of the soul. The soul can exist in different levels. For example the sotapanna cannot be reborn lower than human. So that shows there is a fundamental quality about the human world that separates it from the lower worlds.

These talking animals in the Jatakas are from different aeons of existence. Many things can change in the infinitude of existence. Right now animals can't talk, and right now humans only live to be 80. People are very cruel these days, I've hardly seen anyone treat an animal with the same respect as a human. What does all this abuse do the ability to speak? People talk down to animals, or treat them like they are dumb, when they are clearly not that unintelligent.

All the animals came here all at the same time at the start of the realm. End of research.
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Aloka
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Re: Planes of humans and animals

Post by Aloka »

What if the smouth and "gradual" difference, with almost no discernable barrier between animals and humains is of the same nature as smouth, gradual, non clearly discernable difference between humains and devas?
What is "smouth" ?


.
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Dhammanando
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Re: Planes of humans and animals

Post by Dhammanando »

Aloka wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:53 am
What if the smouth and "gradual" difference, with almost no discernable barrier between animals and humains is of the same nature as smouth, gradual, non clearly discernable difference between humains and devas?
What is "smouth" ?
A late 16th century spelling of 'smooth'.
Svākkhātaṃ brahmacariyaṃ, sandiṭṭhikam’akālikaṃ,
Yattha amoghā pabbajjā, appamattassa sikkhato.


“The holy life is well proclaimed,
directly visible, immediate,
Where not in vain is the going forth
of one who trains heedfully.”
— Sela Sutta
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