Consciousness as nama ?

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sentinel
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Consciousness as nama ?

Post by sentinel »

Did the Buddha categorized consciousness as nama ? Or He didnt ?
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SteRo
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Re: Consciousness as nama ?

Post by SteRo »

"And what is name-&-form? Feeling, perception, intention, contact, & attention: This is called name. The four great elements, and the form dependent on the four great elements: This is called form. This name & this form are called name-&-form.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

"Very well then, Kotthita my friend, I will give you an analogy; for there are cases where it is through the use of an analogy that intelligent people can understand the meaning of what is being said. It is as if two sheaves of reeds were to stand leaning against one another. In the same way, from name-&-form as a requisite condition comes consciousness, from consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
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SarathW
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Re: Consciousness as nama ?

Post by SarathW »

Vinnana (consiousness) paccaya (depend on) Nama-rupa (name and form)
Nama-rupa paccaya Vinnana.
This is the same as the simile in the previous post.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
sentinel
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Re: Consciousness as nama ?

Post by sentinel »

The question is which group should consciousness suppose to be , nama or rupa ?
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SarathW
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Re: Consciousness as nama ?

Post by SarathW »

Another classification is Rupa (Pathavi, Apo, Tejo,Vayo) space and consciousness.
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DooDoot
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Re: Consciousness as nama ?

Post by DooDoot »

sentinel wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:08 am The question is which group should consciousness suppose to be , nama or rupa ?
Irrelevant question. Namarupa does not mean the five aggregates.
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SteRo
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Re: Consciousness as nama ?

Post by SteRo »

sentinel wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:08 am The question is which group should consciousness suppose to be , nama or rupa ?
Either you didn't read the sutta quotes or you did not understand them. They say that consciousness isn't categorized under nama-rupa.
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SarathW
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Re: Consciousness as nama ?

Post by SarathW »

sentinel wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:08 am The question is which group should consciousness suppose to be , nama or rupa ?
I don't think we will ever understand this dichotomy.
It is a chicken and egg question.
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sentinel
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Re: Consciousness as nama ?

Post by sentinel »

SteRo wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:08 am
sentinel wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:08 am The question is which group should consciousness suppose to be , nama or rupa ?
Either you didn't read the sutta quotes or you did not understand them. They say that consciousness isn't categorized under nama-rupa.
I did read , but i just read that someone saids according to sa 298 , the nama includes feeling perception intention consciousness , so , now we have two version .


https://suttacentral.net/sa298/lzh/taisho

云何名?謂四無色陰——
受陰、想陰、行陰、識陰。
And what is nama ? Namely four non rupa khandas ~~ feeling khanda perception khanda intention khanda consciousness khanda .
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SteRo
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Re: Consciousness as nama ?

Post by SteRo »

sentinel wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:19 am
SteRo wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:08 am
sentinel wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:08 am The question is which group should consciousness suppose to be , nama or rupa ?
Either you didn't read the sutta quotes or you did not understand them. They say that consciousness isn't categorized under nama-rupa.
I did read , but i just read that someone saids according to sa 298 , the nama includes feeling perception intention consciousness , so , now we have two version .


https://suttacentral.net/sa298/lzh/taisho

云何名?謂四無色陰——
受陰、想陰、行陰、識陰。
And what is nama ? Namely four non rupa khandas ~~ feeling khanda perception khanda intention khanda consciousness khanda .
Obviously if one follows sutta there is only one version. If you follow after everything "someone says" you might end up with countless versions.
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sentinel
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Re: Consciousness as nama ?

Post by sentinel »

SteRo wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:25 am
sentinel wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:19 am
SteRo wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:08 am

Either you didn't read the sutta quotes or you did not understand them. They say that consciousness isn't categorized under nama-rupa.
I did read , but i just read that someone saids according to sa 298 , the nama includes feeling perception intention consciousness , so , now we have two version .


https://suttacentral.net/sa298/lzh/taisho

云何名?謂四無色陰——
受陰、想陰、行陰、識陰。
And what is nama ? Namely four non rupa khandas ~~ feeling khanda perception khanda intention khanda consciousness khanda .
Obviously if one follows sutta there is only one version. If you follow after everything "someone says" you might end up with countless versions.
No , you missed the point , not someone says , the sa298 Parralel of sn12.2 he pointed out .

Probably most people only believes what they want to believe such as limited to sn12.2 .
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DooDoot
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Re: Consciousness as nama ?

Post by DooDoot »

sentinel wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:43 am the sa298 Parralel of sn12.2
sa298 is not Theravada. sa298 is for heretics. sa298 is obviously not a "parallel" because it is different to SN 12.2.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
sentinel
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Re: Consciousness as nama ?

Post by sentinel »

DooDoot wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:45 am
sentinel wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:43 am the sa298 Parralel of sn12.2
sa298 is not Theravada. sa298 is for heretics. sa298 is obviously not a "parallel" because it is different to SN 12.2.
I dont think you ever read agama probably due to your untrained in the language .
You seems to disregard almost everything .
Well , if it is not Theravada i dont think suttacentral would include it as their early texts . And for your heretic view , i guess nothing ever seems right .
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SteRo
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Re: Consciousness as nama ?

Post by SteRo »

sentinel wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:43 am No , you missed the point , not someone says , the sa298 Parralel of sn12.2 he pointed out .

Probably most people only believes what they want to believe such as limited to sn12.2 .
It's not about belief. It is about following a teaching. if you prefer to follow different teachings then you will have such issues as you are demonstrating. it is totally up to you. Your issues aren't the issues of those who only follow one teaching.
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sentinel
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Re: Consciousness as nama ?

Post by sentinel »

SteRo wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:04 am
sentinel wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:43 am No , you missed the point , not someone says , the sa298 Parralel of sn12.2 he pointed out .

Probably most people only believes what they want to believe such as limited to sn12.2 .
It's not about belief. It is about following a teaching. if you prefer to follow different teachings then you will have such issues as you are demonstrating. it is totally up to you. Your issues aren't the issues of those who only follow one teaching.
Nope , it is the same teaching . You appear to be ignorant like many about agama and its historical facts , so , nevermind just leave it aside .
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