Recently there has been sharp doubt about arhants behaviour in this forum. many members starting thinking of arhants as someone who still can get angry and still they have choice and preference.
some say their anger and choice are not based on delusion but instead its based on compassion.
somesay it is impossible to have even 1% anger in arhant. they dont arise at all. they are 100% free.
what do you think of it? by doubting arhants ability , are we lowering the attainment levels? lets discuss below if interested!
corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants
- confusedlayman
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corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants
Well we have suttas where the Buddha did prefer something and spoke harshly at times. We also have suttas where Arahants had clear rivalry. Connected with that Arahants who are concerned about their status in the sangha. So, we have to explain these behaviours.
Last edited by Ceisiwr on Tue May 12, 2020 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
- rhinoceroshorn
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants
The five crimes are:
Intentionally murdering one's father.
Intentionally murdering one's mother.
Killing an Arhat (fully enlightened being).
Shedding the blood of a Buddha.
Creating a schism within the Sangha.
I see you in Naraka.
Intentionally murdering one's father.
Intentionally murdering one's mother.
Killing an Arhat (fully enlightened being).
Shedding the blood of a Buddha.
Creating a schism within the Sangha.
I see you in Naraka.
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
- confusedlayman
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- Location: Human Realm (as of now)
Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants
rhinoceroshorn wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:06 pm The five crimes are:
Intentionally murdering one's father.
Intentionally murdering one's mother.
Killing an Arhat (fully enlightened being).
Shedding the blood of a Buddha.
Creating a schism within the Sangha.
I see you in Naraka.
I not creating schism.. just want to know if anger can be completly overcome and dont get even slight irritation?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
- confusedlayman
- Posts: 6258
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants
I not creating schism.. just want to know if anger can be completly overcome and dont get even slight irritation?confusedlayman wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:42 pmrhinoceroshorn wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:06 pm The five crimes are:
Intentionally murdering one's father.
Intentionally murdering one's mother.
Killing an Arhat (fully enlightened being).
Shedding the blood of a Buddha.
Creating a schism within the Sangha.
I see you in Naraka.
I not creating schism.. just want to know if anger can be completly overcome and dont get even slight irritation?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
- rhinoceroshorn
- Posts: 1177
- Joined: Fri May 01, 2020 7:27 pm
Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants
I was just joking. And I addressed those who are doubting Arhants.confusedlayman wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:42 pmI not creating schism.. just want to know if anger can be completly overcome and dont get even slight irritation?rhinoceroshorn wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:06 pm The five crimes are:
Intentionally murdering one's father.
Intentionally murdering one's mother.
Killing an Arhat (fully enlightened being).
Shedding the blood of a Buddha.
Creating a schism within the Sangha.
I see you in Naraka.
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants
You mean the discussion how even buddhas don't put up with noise pollution? Of course they don't. Why should they?confusedlayman wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:46 pm Recently there has been sharp doubt about arhants behaviour in this forum. many members starting thinking of arhants as someone who still can get angry and still they have choice and preference.
some say their anger and choice are not based on delusion but instead its based on compassion.
somesay it is impossible to have even 1% anger in arhant. they dont arise at all. they are 100% free.
what do you think of it? by doubting arhants ability , are we lowering the attainment levels? lets discuss below if interested!
Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants
Only a monk can create schism in the sangha.rhinoceroshorn wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:06 pm The five crimes are:
Intentionally murdering one's father.
Intentionally murdering one's mother.
Killing an Arhat (fully enlightened being).
Shedding the blood of a Buddha.
Creating a schism within the Sangha.
I see you in Naraka.
OTOH, discussing this matter is betting against nature. If it is true that arahant can get angry, u gain a little knowledge, but if it is false, and u claim its true, you get the jackpot of nature.
Be careful what are u wishing for
Please stop following me
Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants
Metta, some ppl translate as love, is one of the trained way to enlightenment, but its the easiest state to misunderstood with attachment. Fully with metta can not get angry, but even for some ppl highly trained in metta, e.g let say 90 percent capacity, angry still can rise. This gives the false impression that awaken ppl can get angry. They can be highly awaken, but not fully, e.g some yogis can get the highest jhana, they can access to many advanced knowledges, but still not a fully awaken arahant. And even if they are still sometime angry, that does not means 90 percent capacity is a total waste. These ppl still can be called awaken in some senses
Please stop following me
- Wizard in the Forest
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Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants
I wouldn't just state your opinion as if it were factual. If you think this is the case bring Canonical evidence and if there is no Canonical evidence then it can, and will, be rightfully dismissed by anyone else as just being your opinion, which while it feels valuable to you, to one Practicing the Dhamma it is not worth digging into.
"One is not born a woman, but becomes one."- Simone de Beauvoir
Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants
Why not simply stick to what the suttas say about arahants? There are always some who go beyond what the suttas say through speculating but that is of no relevance.confusedlayman wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:46 pm Recently there has been sharp doubt about arhants behaviour in this forum. many members starting thinking of arhants as someone who still can get angry and still they have choice and preference.
some say their anger and choice are not based on delusion but instead its based on compassion.
somesay it is impossible to have even 1% anger in arhant. they dont arise at all. they are 100% free.
what do you think of it? by doubting arhants ability , are we lowering the attainment levels? lets discuss below if interested!
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
- confusedlayman
- Posts: 6258
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
- Location: Human Realm (as of now)
Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants
I hold the view arhants will not suffer even slightly ecen under extreme conditions. I speak on mental suffering whixh is absent in them. This is what i see and ehat i aspire forSteRo wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 5:48 amWhy not simply stick to what the suttas say about arahants? There are always some who go beyond what the suttas say through speculating but that is of no relevance.confusedlayman wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:46 pm Recently there has been sharp doubt about arhants behaviour in this forum. many members starting thinking of arhants as someone who still can get angry and still they have choice and preference.
some say their anger and choice are not based on delusion but instead its based on compassion.
somesay it is impossible to have even 1% anger in arhant. they dont arise at all. they are 100% free.
what do you think of it? by doubting arhants ability , are we lowering the attainment levels? lets discuss below if interested!
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants
your view is your view and your aspiration is your aspiration.confusedlayman wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 5:51 amI hold the view arhants will not suffer even slightly ecen under extreme conditions. I speak on mental suffering whixh is absent in them. This is what i see and ehat i aspire forSteRo wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 5:48 amWhy not simply stick to what the suttas say about arahants? There are always some who go beyond what the suttas say through speculating but that is of no relevance.confusedlayman wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:46 pm Recently there has been sharp doubt about arhants behaviour in this forum. many members starting thinking of arhants as someone who still can get angry and still they have choice and preference.
some say their anger and choice are not based on delusion but instead its based on compassion.
somesay it is impossible to have even 1% anger in arhant. they dont arise at all. they are 100% free.
what do you think of it? by doubting arhants ability , are we lowering the attainment levels? lets discuss below if interested!
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
- confusedlayman
- Posts: 6258
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
- Location: Human Realm (as of now)
Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants
Yes and thats how it isSteRo wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 5:59 amyour view is your view and your aspiration is your aspiration.confusedlayman wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 5:51 amI hold the view arhants will not suffer even slightly ecen under extreme conditions. I speak on mental suffering whixh is absent in them. This is what i see and ehat i aspire for
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Re: corrupt view of arhants ability by non arhants
Then why have you started this thread?confusedlayman wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 6:20 amYes and thats how it isSteRo wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 5:59 amyour view is your view and your aspiration is your aspiration.confusedlayman wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 5:51 am
I hold the view arhants will not suffer even slightly ecen under extreme conditions. I speak on mental suffering whixh is absent in them. This is what i see and ehat i aspire for
Cleared. αδόξαστος.