What is Gandhabba ?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
SourLife
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Re: What is Gandhabba ?

Post by SourLife »

confusedlayman wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 7:20 am
form wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 8:54 pm I ever ask Bhikkhu Bodhi on this if that means 中阴身, meaning I think is intermediate "body", he said probably.
mind stream which goes from head sides to another existance where conciousness will be established when mind stream landed there. mind stream has vibration as its quality and fast movement.

in dream if u become aware u can shift ur conciousness from 3rd person to 1st person experience of dream charecter.
It is the flow of citta from cuti to patisandhi as far as I understand.

Some definitions are here: http://www.palikanon.com/english/pali_n ... habbaa.htm

"The javanas that occur just before the cuti citta arises form a kammic process and determine the nature of the rebirth consciousness." "This is called pa.tisandhi citta, literally "relinking consciousness." - The Abhidhamma in Practice by N.K.G. Mendis

"Thus, Ananda, from name-and-form as a requisite condition comes consciousness. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-and-form." - Maha Nidana Sutta

Thus, considering gandhabba as a state, "mental body", or a sperm does not appear to be correct. Such a thing can not exist because name-and-form and consciousness should exist together.

Also, by default men produce sperms after puberty in all seasons. But women ovulate monthly. Probably, that is why it is specifically mentioned as a requirement.

Finally, it does not matter to understand what gandhabba is or is not to attain nibbana.
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Gwi
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Re: What is Gandhabba ?

Post by Gwi »

Gandhabbå: smurf, gnome


But, gandhabbå can mean "spe*m"
Coz gandhabbå is small. How?
Coz, "spe*m" is (little bit) taboo.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Ontheway
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Re: What is Gandhabba ?

Post by Ontheway »

Gwi wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:34 am Gandhabbå: smurf, gnome


But, gandhabbå can mean "spe*m"
Coz gandhabbå is small. How?
Coz, "spe*m" is (little bit) taboo.
Did any Suttanta or EBTs or Atthakatha said Gandhabba is sperm ???

This appears as odd teaching to me...
Some people said Gandhabba is a Bardo spirit too.

"Gandhabba" is mere another designation for "beings bound for rebirth, not released from Samsara" that destined to born to a couple when they have union, provided mother in season.

If really Gandhabba is sperm, Buddha will say it definitely, not bound by any so-called taboo. In Brahmayu Sutta, He even revealed his private part to clear up Brahmin Brahmayu's doubt on 32 Mahapurisa lakkhanas. Next, Gandhabba as mentioned in numerous Suttas within the context of beings to be reborn, it never mentioned about body fluid, the context is just don't fit in.

Gandhabba is a word that carries many meanings, a feature shared in many words such as Dhamma, Sankhara, Brahmana, Sura, etc. One of the meanings is being lesser deities under the ruling of Dhṛtarāṣṭra King in Catumaharajika Heaven. It certainly got no relation with male semen.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

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Gwi
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Re: What is Gandhabba ?

Post by Gwi »

Bardo spirit = swear words

That mean "spe*m" coz gandhabbå is small.
Just like a banana is called ***
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Ontheway
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Re: What is Gandhabba ?

Post by Ontheway »

Gwi wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:05 am Bardo spirit = swear words

That mean "spe*m" coz gandhabbå is small.
Just like a banana is called ***
Bardo spirit is not swear word. I am not sure what Indonesian language for it. It is a concept popular in particularly, Vajrayana Buddhism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardo
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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Gwi
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Re: What is Gandhabba ?

Post by Gwi »

When u change "gandhabbå" in
That context into "spe*m", u will understand.


In my country, some people say
"Little brother" for pen*s,
For gurl, people say "mountain".

How can a mountain be in the chest?
And "little brother".
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
rajitha7
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Re: What is Gandhabba ?

Post by rajitha7 »

Gandhabba is an in-between or "anthra-bawa" state of a living being.

Although it only happens when the living being is due to be born in a mothers womb. So it can be human or animal. It needs an intermediate state so that a suitable mother is found.

In all other cases, no mother is needed for birth. The Peta, Butha, Deva or Brahma are born spontaneously.
It's all -> here
Ontheway
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Re: What is Gandhabba ?

Post by Ontheway »

rajitha7 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:50 am Gandhabba is an in-between or "anthra-bawa" state of a living being.

Although it only happens when the living being is due to be born in a mothers womb. So it can be human or animal. It needs an intermediate state so that a suitable mother is found.

In all other cases, no mother is needed for birth. The Peta, Butha, Deva or Brahma are born spontaneously.
This is no longer Theravada teachings and much more of Vajrayana. And certainly no Suttanta, Abhidhamma, or Atthakatha support the doctrine of Bardo state.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Ontheway
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Re: What is Gandhabba ?

Post by Ontheway »

Gwi wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:33 am When u change "gandhabbå" in
That context into "spe*m", u will understand.


In my country, some people say
"Little brother" for pen*s,
For gurl, people say "mountain".

How can a mountain be in the chest?
And "little brother".
And that's how Buddha Dhamma get distorted and fallen into personal view.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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Gwi
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Re: What is Gandhabba ?

Post by Gwi »

No one can refute my opinion, in this case.

That's why Aṭṭhakathā
didn't leave any comments.
Why? Coz, not important.



I think the word "gandhabbå"
which means spe*m (sweard word),
is used by the brahmins.
Because, the word "spe*m" is taboo.

If you zoom spe*m,
or look on youtube,
you will see that
like a worm with a head.
like a creature.


spe*m is alive, but not a creature.
like plants is alive,
but not a creature.


gandhabbå is a small being,
living in tree roots or leaves.
Some gandhabbå may be big (giant).
And the brahmanas using that swear word.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Ontheway
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Re: What is Gandhabba ?

Post by Ontheway »

Gwi wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:16 pm No one can refute my opinion, in this case.

That's why Aṭṭhakathā
didn't leave any comments.
Why? Coz, not important.



I think the word "gandhabbå"
which means spe*m (sweard word),
is used by the brahmins.
Because, the word "spe*m" is taboo.

If you zoom spe*m,
or look on youtube,
you will see that
like a worm with a head.
like a creature.


spe*m is alive, but not a creature.
like plants is alive,
but not a creature.


gandhabbå is a small being,
living in tree roots or leaves.
Some gandhabbå may be big (giant).
And the brahmanas using that swear word.
Suttanta, Abhidhamma, and Atthakatha did not mention Gandhabba is Male Semen at all and that's a very good indication that such teaching is not Buddha's. That's the first refutation.

Furthermore, Gandhabba (lesser deities lived in Catumaharajika Heaven). No one can be certain of their sizes unless a Dibba Cakkhu wielder. What makes you think they are small minute size? That's second refutation.

You seems to confuse the meanings of Gandhabba. If you really think Gandhabba carried the meaning of male spermatozoa (which is really weird), and yet they are lesser deities or fairies that live in Catumaharajika Heaven. Are you saying men's scrotum is a realm of Catumaharajika Heaven? Wouldn't that be absolutely unnecessary Papanca ? That's your third refutation.

And following Paticca Samuppada teachings,
"Vinnana paccaya Namarupa"
Consciousness being a condition for mentally-materiality.

Now here in the scriptures never said:"Sperm being a condition for mentally-materiality". What Buddha clearly explained is Vinnana being a condition for Namarupa. Namarupa = (Vedana, Sanna, Sankhara) + Rupa, and Vinnana served as the 'seed' or condition for Namarupa to arise, as mentioned in Bhava Sutta, Anguttara Nikaya. This will be fourth refutation.

Anyway, it is up to you. If you believe Gandhabba is spermatozoa, that's up to you.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
thomaslaw
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Re: What is Gandhabba ?

Post by thomaslaw »

Gandhabba/gandharva in Buddhism is both a class of celestial beings and a being enabled to be born by its karma, which is the state of a sentient being between rebirths. Cf.:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandharva#Buddhism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhabba ... B9%83yutta
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Gwi
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Re: What is Gandhabba ?

Post by Gwi »

The point is spe*m is a taboo.
So, use "gandhabbå".

Gandhabbå not spe*m,
just a pseudonym.




Majjhima Nikāyå 38--Mahātaṇhāsaṅkhaya Suttank:

"Mendicants, when three things come together an embryo is conceived. In a case where the mother and father come together, but the mother is not in the fertile part of her menstrual cycle, and the spirit being [gandhabbå = not spirit] reborn is not present, the embryo is not conceived. In a case where the mother and father come together, the mother is in the fertile part of her menstrual cycle, but the spirit being reborn is not present, the embryo is not conceived. But when these three things come together—the mother and father come together, the mother is in the fertile part of her menstrual cycle, and the spirit being [gandhabbå = not spirit] reborn is present—an embryo is conceived."




Translate by Ashin Khemindattherå:
"Para bhikkhu, kemunculan pembuahan (GABBHÅ) terjadi melalui pertemuan tiga hal. Dalam hal ini, terjadi pertemuan antara ibu dan ayah, akan tetapi ibu tidak sedang dalam musimnya dan tidak ada gandhabba, selama hal tersebut terjadi maka tidak ada kemunculan gabbha. Berkaitan dengan hal ini, terjadi pertemuan antara ibu dan ayah; ibu berada dalam musimnya dan gandhabba tidak ada maka selama hal tersebut terjadi tidak ada kemunculan gabbha."


Gabbhå = fertilization (process) = pembuahan (Indo)


Change gandhabbå into sp*rm.
Translate that into english using google translate.
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
Ontheway
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Re: What is Gandhabba ?

Post by Ontheway »

Gwi wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:41 pm The point is spe*m is a taboo.
So, use "gandhabbå".

Gandhabbå not spe*m,
just a pseudonym.




Majjhima Nikāyå 38--Mahātaṇhāsaṅkhaya Suttank:

"Mendicants, when three things come together an embryo is conceived. In a case where the mother and father come together, but the mother is not in the fertile part of her menstrual cycle, and the spirit being [gandhabbå = not spirit] reborn is not present, the embryo is not conceived. In a case where the mother and father come together, the mother is in the fertile part of her menstrual cycle, but the spirit being reborn is not present, the embryo is not conceived. But when these three things come together—the mother and father come together, the mother is in the fertile part of her menstrual cycle, and the spirit being [gandhabbå = not spirit] reborn is present—an embryo is conceived."




Translate by Ashin Khemindattherå:
"Para bhikkhu, kemunculan pembuahan (GABBHÅ) terjadi melalui pertemuan tiga hal. Dalam hal ini, terjadi pertemuan antara ibu dan ayah, akan tetapi ibu tidak sedang dalam musimnya dan tidak ada gandhabba, selama hal tersebut terjadi maka tidak ada kemunculan gabbha. Berkaitan dengan hal ini, terjadi pertemuan antara ibu dan ayah; ibu berada dalam musimnya dan gandhabba tidak ada maka selama hal tersebut terjadi tidak ada kemunculan gabbha."


Gabbhå = fertilization (process) = pembuahan (Indo)


Change gandhabbå into sp*rm.
Translate that into english using google translate.
That Mahātaṇhāsaṅkhaya Suttanta taught by the Blessed One is true. So is Bhante Kheminda when he quoted the Sutta text. There is no contradiction between them and my points.

Father + Mother, Mother in season, Being destined to reborn (Gandhabba) = Jati of a Being

None of these contradict with Bhava Sutta and Paticca Samuppada, for the Gandhabba is always refer to the being that bound for Samsara:
1) In Bhava Sutta, it was the consciousness served as 'bija' for subsequent birth (if still cannot gain Nibbana in previous life);
2) in Paticca Samuppada, it was Vinnana paccaya Namarupa;
3) in Abhidhamma, when after the death (or Cuti Vinnana diminishes), it was the first consciousness arises at the destination of subsequent rebirth, thus knowing as Patisandhi Citta.

All of them carry the same meaning as referring to the consciousness of "Being to be born, not released from Samsara". Not biological male semen fluid or more precise, spermatozoa.

Btw, why you change the meaning of the Pali word as to your will? Wouldn't that be an act of distorting Dhamma?

Taboo or no taboo, as I said, Buddha roars like a mighty Lion to four corners of the world without any restrictions in terminology and phrases. If He wish to speak the Dhamma, He will do so without being trapped by taboo. Just as Vinaya, the word "semen" was mentioned; just as Brahmayu's cases, He showed his private part via Iddhi; Buddha will say what He want to say according to the Dhamma He realised.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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Gwi
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Re: What is Gandhabba ?

Post by Gwi »

Why is gandhabbå not used in Bhava Sutta, etc?

I answer: because it doesn't match,
With the meaning of "spe*m".
Bahagia Tidak Harus Selalu Bersama

Dhammapadå 370
"Tinggalkanlah 5 (belantara) dan patahkan 5 (belenggu rendah),
Serta kembangkan 5 potensi (4 iddhipādā + 1 ussoḷhi).
Bhikkhu yang telah menaklukkan 5 kungkungan (belenggu tinggi),
Lebih layak disebut 'orang yang telah mengarungi air baih (saṃsārå)'."
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