The Only Problem with the Buddha...

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Lost1984
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The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by Lost1984 »

The Buddha could have went around healing people of their physical ailments while he preached the dhamma, right? Those who were ill, those who were dying and those who were in pain...etc.

I'm just wondering, though...
Why didn't he devote his time doing any of those things if he had the abilities and was capable of doing so?

:shrug:
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Pondera
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by Pondera »

Maybe he didn’t want to end up like Jesus. :shrug:
“Monk, the property of light, the property of beauty, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of space, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, the property of the dimension of nothingness: These properties are to be reached as perception attainments.[2] The property of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception is to be reached as a remnant-of-fabrications attainment. The property of the cessation of feeling & perception is to be reached as a cessation attainment."[3]

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Disciple
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by Disciple »

Buddhas aren't capable of taking away anyone's suffering by will. They can only teach the Dharma.
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confusedlayman
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by confusedlayman »

Lost1984 wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 7:03 am The Buddha could have went around healing people of their physical ailments while he preached the dhamma, right? Those who were ill, those who were dying and those who were in pain...etc.

I'm just wondering, though...
Why didn't he devote his time doing any of those things if he had the abilities and was capable of doing so?

:shrug:
buddha is not mara assistant like jesus christ. jesus healed people and told everything will be alright but failed to tell the truth that life is suffering. buddha dont want to lie but told the truth that life is suffering and stoip rebirth if u want to stop suffer. even to monks he urged them to do but didnt force them to do. so what he did was correct.

even if he healed some aliments, they would have sang a song for him but still would have died later on. if u are affected by disease for which no medicine is there, then do u want buddha to heal u or give u teaching to investigate the disease, karma law and way out of it? u can choose only one!
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Pondera
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by Pondera »

And now, as he came near to the riverside, a young woman came up to him, and after saluting him with great respect, said to him: "O Reverend Lord, have pity on me and tell me where I shall be able to find that seed which keeps away death."

Siddhattha looked at her as if he would ask her what she meant.

The woman noticed his look, and went on:

"Do you not remember, Lord? Yesterday I brought you my little son who was sick, so sick that he was near to dying, and asked your reverence if there was no medicine at all that would keep him alive, for he is my only son. And your reverence said yes, there was something that might save him from dying, if I could get it -- a tola's weight of black mustard seed got from a house in which no one ever had died."

"And did you get that seed, sister?" said Siddhattha with a tender, wistful smile.

"Nay, Lord, I did not," said the woman sadly. "I went round all our village to every house asking for black mustard seed, and everybody was very willing to give me some, but when I told them that I only wanted it from them if no one had ever died in their house, they said that that was a queer thing for me to say, for everybody knew there had been a death in their house, and sometimes more then one death. Some said a slave had died with them. In some houses it was the father who had died; in some the son; in some the mother; in some the daughter. But in every home, every house, some one had died. I could not get my seed. O Reverend Sir, tell me where I may get that seed before my little son dies. Are there no homes at all where death has not been?"

"You have said it," Siddhattha answered the now weeping woman. "In all the wide world there are no homes where death has not been. Now you have found this out for yourself. Now you know that yours is not the only grief in the world. Now you know with your own knowledge that all the world weeps along with you for some dear one dead. Go home and bury your child. As for me, sister, I go to find if I can, what will put an end to your and all men's sorrow; and if I find it, I will come again and tell it to you."
https://www.budsas.org/ebud/lifebud/lifebud2.htm
“Monk, the property of light, the property of beauty, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of space, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, the property of the dimension of nothingness: These properties are to be reached as perception attainments.[2] The property of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception is to be reached as a remnant-of-fabrications attainment. The property of the cessation of feeling & perception is to be reached as a cessation attainment."[3]

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
justindesilva
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by justindesilva »

Lost1984 wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 7:03 am The Buddha could have went around healing people of their physical ailments while he preached the dhamma, right? Those who were ill, those who were dying and those who were in pain...etc.

I'm just wondering, though...
Why didn't he devote his time doing any of those things if he had the abilities and was capable of doing so?

:shrug:
Please read The clinical and Hygienic Concerns of Lord Buddha in web
Buddhism.lib.ntu.edu.tw
This explains how Lord Budda exerted to look after the sick.
He advocated the wholesome merits of looking after especially the Sangha. Girimananda sutta, bojjanga sutta are parittas to heal the sick while Angulimala piitha is another paritta especially for pregnant mothers.
Lord Buddha's main concern was to free beings from suffering and he made sickness one of observations to understand the four noble truths.
SarathW
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by SarathW »

How Buddha cure the sick when he can't do it himself?
He died (Parinibbana) from sickness.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
santa100
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by santa100 »

Lost1984 wrote:Why didn't he devote his time doing any of those things if he had the abilities and was capable of doing so?
It's probably related to that popular saying: "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime". There was a story of Kisa Gotami coming to the Buddha and asked Him to resurrect her dead child. He told her to go into the village and find some mustard seeds only from a family where no family members had died. I guess He might be able to perform some resurrection miracle, but then for what? The mother and the son will still have to face old age, sickness, and death! There's no escaping from the inevitable. Hence it's much better to teach them the "how", instead of giving them the "what", and they can fish all they want for their whole life!
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by DNS »

santa100 wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 1:35 pm
Lost1984 wrote:Why didn't he devote his time doing any of those things if he had the abilities and was capable of doing so?
It's probably related to that popular saying: "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime". There was a story of Kisa Gotami coming to the Buddha and asked Him to resurrect her dead child. He told her to go into the village and find some mustard seeds only from a family where no family members had died. I guess He might be able to perform some resurrection miracle, but then for what? The mother and the son will still have to face old age, sickness, and death! There's no escaping from the inevitable. Hence it's much better to teach them the "how", instead of giving them the "what", and they can fish all they want for their whole life!
:goodpost:

I was raised in a non-christian family, so when I first read the Gospels, was able to do so perhaps more objectively and thought it was kind of strange that Lazarus and others were healed and brought back from the dead. They still eventually all got sick and died, including Lazarus. So what was the point? Perhaps a magician's side-show to gather more followers? The Buddha's teachings are much more realistic and rational; we all all get sick, we all die, we all face our kamma-vipaka.

If healings really worked, why are there so many hospitals, doctors, and nurses? Those professions wouldn't even exist, if the prayer-healings really worked.
santa100
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by santa100 »

DNS wrote:If healings really worked, why are there so many hospitals, doctors, and nurses? Those professions wouldn't even exist, if the prayer-healings really worked.
And that's why it's sad to see there're still so many gullible folks continue to give away their life-savings to fatten the pockets of the religion con-artists:
Lost1984
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by Lost1984 »

DNS wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 3:30 pm
santa100 wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 1:35 pm
Lost1984 wrote:Why didn't he devote his time doing any of those things if he had the abilities and was capable of doing so?
It's probably related to that popular saying: "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime". There was a story of Kisa Gotami coming to the Buddha and asked Him to resurrect her dead child. He told her to go into the village and find some mustard seeds only from a family where no family members had died. I guess He might be able to perform some resurrection miracle, but then for what? The mother and the son will still have to face old age, sickness, and death! There's no escaping from the inevitable. Hence it's much better to teach them the "how", instead of giving them the "what", and they can fish all they want for their whole life!
:goodpost:

I was raised in a non-christian family, so when I first read the Gospels, was able to do so perhaps more objectively and thought it was kind of strange that Lazarus and others were healed and brought back from the dead. They still eventually all got sick and died, including Lazarus. So what was the point? Perhaps a magician's side-show to gather more followers? The Buddha's teachings are much more realistic and rational; we all all get sick, we all die, we all face our kamma-vipaka.

If healings really worked, why are there so many hospitals, doctors, and nurses? Those professions wouldn't even exist, if the prayer-healings really worked.


This thought occured to me...
Which one of these would you choose in the future?

Someone is ill and goes a doctor. The doctor gives a speech about how everyone eventually gets sick and eventually dies. Then tells the patient to breathe until he feels better and sends him on his way.

Or...

Doctor alleviates the illness on the spot with no signs of it ever occuring in the first place. Sends patient on his way, but gives mysterious parable for you to figure out.

Which doctor would you choose, personally if you were ill or in pain?

Which would you recommend to someone you care about?

:heart:
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cappuccino
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by cappuccino »

Lost1984 wrote: The Buddha could have went around healing people
he healed tens of thousands of people


by ending their suffering forever
"All men's souls are immortal, but the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine." -Socrates
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by DNS »

Lost1984 wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 5:23 pm This thought occured to me...
Which one of these would you choose in the future?
Someone is ill and goes a doctor. The doctor gives a speech about how everyone eventually gets sick and eventually dies. Then tells the patient to breathe until he feels better and sends him on his way.
Or...
Doctor alleviates the illness on the spot with no signs of it ever occuring in the first place. Sends patient on his way, but gives mysterious parable for you to figure out.
Which doctor would you choose, personally if you were ill or in pain?
Which would you recommend to someone you care about?
Loaded question.

The premises are not true. A physician wouldn't give someone a speech. They would treat them with a medical program, pharmaceuticals, etc.
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Pondera
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by Pondera »

santa100 wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 1:35 pm
Lost1984 wrote:Why didn't he devote his time doing any of those things if he had the abilities and was capable of doing so?
It's probably related to that popular saying: "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime". There was a story of Kisa Gotami coming to the Buddha and asked Him to resurrect her dead child. He told her to go into the village and find some mustard seeds only from a family where no family members had died. I guess He might be able to perform some resurrection miracle, but then for what? The mother and the son will still have to face old age, sickness, and death! There's no escaping from the inevitable. Hence it's much better to teach them the "how", instead of giving them the "what", and they can fish all they want for their whole life!
I’ve posted a link to the story here: https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?p=562297#p562297

Not that I’m jealous because I mentioned the story first or that you received accolades for your post and I didn’t ... I mean, how petty would I have to be to need that kind of recognition?
“Monk, the property of light, the property of beauty, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of space, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, the property of the dimension of nothingness: These properties are to be reached as perception attainments.[2] The property of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception is to be reached as a remnant-of-fabrications attainment. The property of the cessation of feeling & perception is to be reached as a cessation attainment."[3]

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
whynotme
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by whynotme »

Lost1984 wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 7:03 am The Buddha could have went around healing people of their physical ailments while he preached the dhamma, right? Those who were ill, those who were dying and those who were in pain...etc.

I'm just wondering, though...
Why didn't he devote his time doing any of those things if he had the abilities and was capable of doing so?

:shrug:
There was a case when a lay woman cut a meat of her thigh because of faith. When the Buddha knew the story, he visited her and told bring her in front of him. Then, when he looked at her, her thigh is instantly healed. The ability of the Buddhas is unthinkable if he really wants to do. IMO, he can heal her even without revealing himself from distance, but the Buddha doesnt do unclear thing. So he must come to her house to let them know it is him that healed her

The Buddha doesnt heal ppl bc he is a fair man. He only guides men to help themselves. On the outside, it is maybe a bad case when someone is ill, but from kamma point of view, that person may did bad things to other in the past. So, helping this person is unfair, unjust to the victims of him.

The Buddha is not only a teacher for human, but also for the spiritual realms. Unlike human, these devas have long lifespan and memory, and may know both the victim and the action in the past. So if the Buddha does unjust things, they will lose their faith on the Buddha, which is against the goal of turning the dhamma wheel.

On resurrection of the dead, I think there are some cases. Given that this body is a machine to the nano level, it can be repair or resurrected. But if the conscious of the dead is reborned, then the resurrected person will be another person. Another conscious will take control the resurrected body, even the trait, the memory in the brain is the same, even behave the same, it is still another person. Only if the old conscious is not gone to another life, and he is allowed to reenter the body then in this case, the true resurrection is possible.

It is similar to possession, when the spirit possesses the body of a medium. It is said that the lower spirits desire the bodies very much. The higher spirits like deva already enjoy their own lives and dont want a human body. Human body only valuable to some one who want to advance to enlightenment. To enjoy sensual happiness, a deva life is favourable. Without the material brain, creating new kamma is hard, so deva only lives to their past kamma, in a state like human dream. Only human can become monk, spirirs can not.
Last edited by whynotme on Tue May 26, 2020 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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