The Only Problem with the Buddha...

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
whynotme
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by whynotme »

Not only the Buddha did not heal other, he did not heal himself. It seems he is definitely a man of discipline and principles. He did not do a favor to himself what he did not do to other, out of justness and fairness.

There was several occasions, when the Buddha was sick, and he can secretly heal his body with the most powerful ability in the universe. But he used a doctor instead. On other occasions, he did overcome sickness by reciting dhamma or let other recite dhamma for him. He did not use iddhi, or supernatural power, but just the pure joy of listenning dhamma help him cure his sick.
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confusedlayman
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by confusedlayman »

whynotme wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 3:39 am
Lost1984 wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 7:03 am The Buddha could have went around healing people of their physical ailments while he preached the dhamma, right? Those who were ill, those who were dying and those who were in pain...etc.

I'm just wondering, though...
Why didn't he devote his time doing any of those things if he had the abilities and was capable of doing so?

:shrug:
There was a case when a lay woman cut a meat of her thigh because of faith. When the Buddha knew the story, he visited her and told bring her in front of him. Then, when he looked at her, her thigh is instantly healed. The ability of the Buddhas is unthinkable if he really wants to do. IMO, he can heal her even without revealing himself from distance, but the Buddha doesnt do unclear thing. So he must come to her house to let them know it is him that healed her

The Buddha doesnt heal ppl bc he is a fair man. He only guides men to help themselves. On the outside, it is maybe a bad case when someone is ill, but from kamma point of view, that person may did bad things to other in the past. So, helping this person is unfair, unjust to the victims of him.

The Buddha is not only a teacher for human, but also for the spiritual realms. Unlike human, these devas have long lifespan and memory, and may know both the victim and the action in the past. So if the Buddha does unjust things, they will lose their faith on the Buddha, which is against the goal of turning the dhamma wheel.

On resurrection of the dead, I think there are some cases. Given that this body is a machine to the nano level, it can be repair or resurrected. But if the conscious of the dead is reborned, then the resurrected person will be another person. Another conscious will take control the resurrected body, even the trait, the memory in the brain is the same, even behave the same, it is still another person. Only if the old conscious is not gone to another life, and he is allowed to reenter the body then in this case, the true resurrection is possible.

It is similar to possession, when the spirit possesses the body of a medium. It is said that the lower spirits desire the bodies very much. The higher spirits like deva already enjoy their own lives and dont want a human body. Human body only valuable to some one who want to advance to enlightenment. To enjoy sensual happiness, a deva life is favourable. Without the material brain, creating new kamma is hard, so deva only lives to their past kamma, in a state like human dream. Only human can become monk, spirirs can not.
devas live like human dream.. pls explain
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cappuccino
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

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whynotme wrote: Without the material brain, creating new karma is hard, so deva only lives to their past karma, in a state like a dream. Only humans can become monks, spirits can not.
angels can meditate


however, there is less motivation
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whynotme
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by whynotme »

confusedlayman wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 8:48 am devas live like human dream.. pls explain
The whole of their world is created out of perception.

There is no golden castle flying around, no satellite ever see anything suspicious. In fact, everything is created by the imagination of the observer.

It is like internet or youtube. Something on youtube is not real, it is just a created virtual image. That why it is called spirit, because it is merely spirit. What is described in the sutta is true, but only true from the eye.

Ppl with divine eye can see the deva world, it is like there is a common server, e.g youtube, where anyone with browser - divine eye, can see the same video, with house and ppl, street.. But it is just a video, in no sense a video is real.

Like in the dream, i see house, i see ppl.. It is true that those things exist IN MY DREAM and ONLY IN MY DREAM. The deva world only exist in the state of perception, it is created out of thin air. The house, the ppl are just virtual items in this dream, or life is maya, afterall.

The deva world is the virtual world of the spirits. Its a dream of the deads
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cappuccino
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by cappuccino »

whynotme wrote: The deva world is the virtual world of the spirits. Its a dream of the dead
"All men's souls are immortal, but the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine." -Socrates
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by whynotme »

cappuccino wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 12:53 am
whynotme wrote: The deva world is the virtual world of the spirits. Its a dream of the dead
These kind of vids hardly prove anything. It can be photoshoped for attracting view from greedy journalists.

The deva world is not only in the sky, but there are earth borne deva around us, in the forest, on the tree... Bring all the camera or equipment and go to the destination that someone has divine eye can see. You will record nothing. Not even a trace of matter.

The spirits are here around us. Dont point it to the sky. In the end, there is no golden castle floating around. Its just illusion of the perception. The sadly fact that is how the world exist, you can deny it all you want.

There are great birds with wingspan of km, you will not find them in the material world. The fact about the world is not an excitement as the imagination.

But ppl can be in denying mode, like they believe the earth was created thousands years ago by an old man in the sky.
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whynotme
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by whynotme »

Read the first sutta of middle lengths, the root of all things, this is considered one of the most important and deepest teaching.

In this sutta the Buddha teaches that how normally, ppl percep the world. It means that we see the world through sanna or perception

A toddle like 1 or 2 years old, it doesn't perceive people, as it merely recognize visual stimulate from the eyes, just a picture of colors. As it grows older, it gains the ability to recognize a visual form as human. This is perception.

Perception is a virtual recognition built upon raw senses input. Thank to perception, we can function normally in the world as perception recognize objects, this a phone, this is a man... Perception marks the object features and then put it in memory.

When needed, perception searches the memory to find a matched pattern and gives it to the conscious.

The function of conscious is merely recognize, or know. In most cases, what conscious know, is fed by perception. Conscious is like a king, but in order to know about his country, the king must rely on his minister to report him. The minister is the perception, it creates report for the conscious to know. The minister says this is a farmer and the king know it, this is the farmer, without the report of the minister, the king know nothing.

In the same sense, perception feeds formations for conscious. Sanna creates the impression, this is a farmer, this is a phone.. and conscious knows these impressions. How conscious knows is driven by sanna or perception. If sanna says this is a thieft then conscious see this is a thieft, it can not recognize otherwise, bc the only function of conscious is to know.

So the ability of sanna is to mark and build the virtual image for conscious, then store these impression in memory.

When you memory something, actually you recollect the stored perception. So the sanna can mark the color, the sound.. etc in all senses. When you memory the color, it means that you recollect the impression stored in perception. The whole image of memory is from sanna.

When you dream, actually this stored sanna is used to build your dream world. Let say a native person who did not know about the computer or a gold bar, he can not make them appear in his dream.

So, in order to see a gold bar or a computer in the dream, you must first seen it in the real world. While there is no golden castle in the real world, in order to see a golden castle in a dream, the golden and the castle definitions must be learned first from reality

That is how sanna works, it can build or create new impressions from old impressions in memory.

So when a person dies, losing the ability to learn new things, he continues using his stored sanna to build his dream follow his kamma. If he did good deeds, he builds heavens, otherwise he builds hell for himself based on stored sanna which is his kamma. Each action, man stores new impressions, or perceptions into memory, this is kamma.

So there is no gold in spirit world. Gold is a material concept from material world. But in a dream, you can still see golden things. It is not actually gold, but just the impression, or perception that this thing is golden, or made by gold. But in a dream there is nothing made by gold, everything is made by perception.

So, saying there is gold in spirit world is similar to saying there is gold on tv. There will never be any gold on the tv screen, the concepts of gold and tv screen contradict each others.

Understand this point is understand sanna, the root of all thing.
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

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16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadhamma/
https://seeingthroughthenet.net/books/
http://buddhadust.net/backmatter/indexe ... ta_toc.htm
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
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Sam Vara
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

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whynotme wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 4:20 am
A toddle like 1 or 2 years old, it doesn't perceive people, as it merely recognize visual stimulate from the eyes, just a picture of colors. As it grows older, it gains the ability to recognize a visual form as human. This is perception.
I wouldn't dispute your general point about perception, but toddlers of this age normally recognise a huge number of different people, and also are adept at reading the emotions and intentions of others. At two, most are talking purposefully. Tiny babies a few days old can recognise faces, especially their mother.
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by confusedlayman »

whynotme wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 2:13 am
cappuccino wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 12:53 am
whynotme wrote: The deva world is the virtual world of the spirits. Its a dream of the dead
These kind of vids hardly prove anything. It can be photoshoped for attracting view from greedy journalists.

The deva world is not only in the sky, but there are earth borne deva around us, in the forest, on the tree... Bring all the camera or equipment and go to the destination that someone has divine eye can see. You will record nothing. Not even a trace of matter.

The spirits are here around us. Dont point it to the sky. In the end, there is no golden castle floating around. Its just illusion of the perception. The sadly fact that is how the world exist, you can deny it all you want.

There are great birds with wingspan of km, you will not find them in the material world. The fact about the world is not an excitement as the imagination.

But ppl can be in denying mode, like they believe the earth was created thousands years ago by an old man in the sky.
so incase a rich man did good things and die, he born as deva in same earth house but he dont see earth house but see another house in same spot and lives there eventhough humans with divine eye can see both his earth house (former home) and heaven house overlapping eachother but one is transperant to human and heaven house is opaque to deva but earth house is transperant or non seen to deva?
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by 2600htz »

Hello:

a) If he started healing people of their physical ailments, it would probably take a day until he cant no longer teach dhamma, because people relentlessly would ask to heal them or a family member. If he declines, then people will become angry at him.

b) People without faith will think its a scam in order to gain fame, then they will become angry.

c) I think inclination wise, Buddhas an arahants tend to go with the flow, they are not into trying to change reality or the present moment. The Buddha many times when invited to a meal was not hungry but eated anyways, so people could make merit. I think with his doctor it was something simmilar, he probably could have gotten away with his personal diseases but choosed not to.

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whynotme
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by whynotme »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 8:55 am so incase a rich man did good things and die, he born as deva in same earth house but he dont see earth house but see another house in same spot and lives there eventhough humans with divine eye can see both his earth house (former home) and heaven house overlapping eachother but one is transperant to human and heaven house is opaque to deva but earth house is transperant or non seen to deva?
It seems that this is the case. The two worlds are overlap. Ppl of the sanna world see it different as ppl of material world.

Dont praise ancient ppl too much, they are still human being. Without a scientific approach, they can be fooled by nature, even they had divine eye.

The two worlds are made to fool them. Not only they match, they can interact each other. For example, a human with a blade can cut a spirit, it is similar to cut a person in a dream with a real sword. Because of this, ppl with divine eye believe the perception world as real and as an extend of material world. But it is not.

A material sword can cut a spirit, but it seems that is not the mechanism. To understand this point, just look at some virtual games like pokemonk go, or some games use camera to record real world image then embedded in the virtual world of the game. It is not the material sword that cut a perception made body, or a dream made body. It seems nature is a virtual camera. Anything in this material world is recorded by nature and then embedded in the perception world. Like the wii games, it records human motion and embed to in game characters.

The blade is recorded by nature and then duplicate another version in the perception world. This perception made blade then can cut the body of the spirit. This mechanism is very hard to see, even with divine eye without scientific mind. So for most part of history, ppl think the deva world is as real as the material world. But it is not, its just a virtual world.

Only ppl as the Buddha know the true nature of the universe. But as ppl of his time are superstitious, he needed a suitable approach. What the Buddha said is true, e.g he confirmed the devas exist, but he did not explain further. But in some teachings, he gave some hints about the nature, e.g the root of all things is perception, or sometimes he taught that all the world is senses. For ancient ppl, it is very hard to understand the nature of the world. And if the Buddha goes too far, they will disbelief him.

Normal ppl dont know it as they dont have power of the Buddha. Even if they get the highest jhana, they still can not know the nature of the universe.
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whynotme
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by whynotme »

Sam Vara wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 7:54 am
whynotme wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 4:20 am
A toddle like 1 or 2 years old, it doesn't perceive people, as it merely recognize visual stimulate from the eyes, just a picture of colors. As it grows older, it gains the ability to recognize a visual form as human. This is perception.
I wouldn't dispute your general point about perception, but toddlers of this age normally recognise a huge number of different people, and also are adept at reading the emotions and intentions of others. At two, most are talking purposefully. Tiny babies a few days old can recognise faces, especially their mother.
Thank you for pointing it out. It is my mistake, as i have a habit of making a general case to give a point, so exact number is not important in my mind.
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Re: The Only Problem with the Buddha...

Post by confusedlayman »

whynotme wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 5:12 am
confusedlayman wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 8:55 am so incase a rich man did good things and die, he born as deva in same earth house but he dont see earth house but see another house in same spot and lives there eventhough humans with divine eye can see both his earth house (former home) and heaven house overlapping eachother but one is transperant to human and heaven house is opaque to deva but earth house is transperant or non seen to deva?
It seems that this is the case. The two worlds are overlap. Ppl of the sanna world see it different as ppl of material world.

Dont praise ancient ppl too much, they are still human being. Without a scientific approach, they can be fooled by nature, even they had divine eye.

The two worlds are made to fool them. Not only they match, they can interact each other. For example, a human with a blade can cut a spirit, it is similar to cut a person in a dream with a real sword. Because of this, ppl with divine eye believe the perception world as real and as an extend of material world. But it is not.

A material sword can cut a spirit, but it seems that is not the mechanism. To understand this point, just look at some virtual games like pokemonk go, or some games use camera to record real world image then embedded in the virtual world of the game. It is not the material sword that cut a perception made body, or a dream made body. It seems nature is a virtual camera. Anything in this material world is recorded by nature and then embedded in the perception world. Like the wii games, it records human motion and embed to in game characters.

The blade is recorded by nature and then duplicate another version in the perception world. This perception made blade then can cut the body of the spirit. This mechanism is very hard to see, even with divine eye without scientific mind. So for most part of history, ppl think the deva world is as real as the material world. But it is not, its just a virtual world.

Only ppl as the Buddha know the true nature of the universe. But as ppl of his time are superstitious, he needed a suitable approach. What the Buddha said is true, e.g he confirmed the devas exist, but he did not explain further. But in some teachings, he gave some hints about the nature, e.g the root of all things is perception, or sometimes he taught that all the world is senses. For ancient ppl, it is very hard to understand the nature of the world. And if the Buddha goes too far, they will disbelief him.

Normal ppl dont know it as they dont have power of the Buddha. Even if they get the highest jhana, they still can not know the nature of the universe.
yes i understand what us saying but is it more vivid and real than human world that devas cling to it too much? But perception is the cause for meaning of anything is true, snakes see this world as heatmap but when they become human they see same world as color so they think before they are in some world that is just yellow, orange and red in color but now there is another world with so miuch color and diverse perception.
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