Concept of Rebirth confuses me

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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NuanceOfSuchness
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Re: Concept of Rebirth confuses me

Post by NuanceOfSuchness »

Ryan95227 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:15 pm I 100% believe in rebirth but...
We have a vague understanding of rebirth here in the human realm but many people are not able to connect the dots. This means we unconsciously remember the vast cosmological ecosystem which operates in the cosmological collective unconscious - samsara. In the human realm this cosmic collective unconscious is covered over by societal conditioning. However, experiences from other other realms are able to penetrate through into the human experience but are normalised as being exclusive to the human condition. When we watch horror movies, there's fear mixed with a sense of fun and excitement. We are taunting the woeful realms from the deluded comfort of the human form. There is a realm where beings look into each other's eyes and lose themselves in a delirium of love. We do this in the human form too. As a human, we have the ability to express parts of most realms thus, most realms converge in the human form. Knowing this directly means becoming conscious of all of this and that is precisely why we practice. Consciousness means we can exit the process. Unconsciousness means we remain.
SarathW
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Re: Concept of Rebirth confuses me

Post by SarathW »

DooDoot wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:30 am
SarathW wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:52 pm Buddha did not teach rebirth.
He taught birth (Bhava)
Bhava is not birth. Buddha taught bhava, birth (jati) & 'rebirth' (upapajjati).
Agree.
I am glad you are here to correct me. :D
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Aloka
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Re: Concept of Rebirth confuses me

Post by Aloka »

Ryan95227 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:15 pm It boggles my mind....
Then perhaps you should avoid speculating about it, Ryan, and focus on practising the Dhamma in the here and now.

The Buddha said:
the Dhamma is visible in the here-&-now, timeless, inviting verification, pertinent, to be realized by the wise for themselves."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

:anjali:
justindesilva
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Re: Concept of Rebirth confuses me

Post by justindesilva »

DooDoot wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:30 am
SarathW wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:52 pm Buddha did not teach rebirth.
He taught birth (Bhava)
Bhava is not birth. Buddha taught bhava, birth (jati) & 'rebirth' (upapajjati).
Bhava is not birth and is totally agreed. Bhava is life continuing with sensual desires. Again rebirth is a wrong term to me, whereas it has to be re becoming. Rebecoming of pancaskanda with upadana ( clinging to sensual desires).
It is well explained as conditioned darma in Paticca samuppada that re becoming occurs with formation of kamma which enforces a next becoming as of avidya. And this re becoming occured as of avidya that continues with a cuti citta ( explained in DO).
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DooDoot
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Re: Concept of Rebirth confuses me

Post by DooDoot »

justindesilva wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:18 am Bhava is life continuing with sensual desires.
I agree.
justindesilva wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:18 amAgain rebirth is a wrong term to me, whereas it has to be re becoming.
I think re-becoming (punabbhava) is not the same as re-birth (upapajjati). Re-becoming I think is life re-continuing with sensual desires & other habits and re-birth another outcome of re-becoming.
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justindesilva
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Re: Concept of Rebirth confuses me

Post by justindesilva »

DooDoot wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:15 am
justindesilva wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:18 am Bhava is life continuing with sensual desires.
I agree.
justindesilva wrote: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:18 amAgain rebirth is a wrong term to me, whereas it has to be re becoming.
I think re-becoming (punabbhava) is not the same as re-birth (upapajjati). Re-becoming I think is life re-continuing with sensual desires & other habits and re-birth another outcome of re-becoming.
It is my feeling that re becoming occurs from moment to moment but rebecoming after the death is called rebirth.
Uppada thiti bhanga are terms in the process in our existence, similar to birth , sustenance and change. ( Bhanga literally is destroying). Even our elements of body is subject to these three stages.
2600htz
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Re: Concept of Rebirth confuses me

Post by 2600htz »

Hi:

I think its case closed, once we think 99,99% of people cant remember even the first years of their lives.
On the other side, i get your point of starting fresh with every life, but that is also not 100% true (kamma).

Regards.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Concept of Rebirth confuses me

Post by confusedlayman »

Ryan95227 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:15 pm I 100% believe in rebirth but the concept that always gets to me is that the only memory that I have is my current self. To simplify this more, the only "experience of suffering" I seemed to have experienced has only happened in this current life it seems. If I truly lived through eons and eons of births wouldn't I have at least experience some sort of suffering and actually remember them? It boggles my mind because if I were to die and be reborn again as human and experience suffering again, the suffering I experienced in my previous life seems to be rather gone as if I never experienced it before. It's like I never actually went through that and just starting from the initial point again.
concentionally speaking....no use in talking about conventional rebirth without divine eye or past life abhinna...
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: Concept of Rebirth confuses me

Post by DNS »

Ryan95227 wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:15 pm I 100% believe in rebirth but the concept that always gets to me is that the only memory that I have is my current self. To simplify this more, the only "experience of suffering" I seemed to have experienced has only happened in this current life it seems. If I truly lived through eons and eons of births wouldn't I have at least experience some sort of suffering and actually remember them?
Birth is suffering, yet we don't remember being born. We don't remember being held by our mother right after childbirth, yet it did happen. We don't remember the first time our mother or father changed our diaper, but it did happen.
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