Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

Yes
1
6%
No
14
82%
Other
1
6%
Yes and no
1
6%
 
Total votes: 17

sentinel
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Re: Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

Post by sentinel »

Suicide is the act of killing yourself
intentionally .
Nibbana is the ending of the sense of self and defilements and no reappearance of aggregates after its disintegration .
Therefore , nibbana is the "killing of the self" in its "Truest-sense" which is good sense !

:quote:
You always gain by giving
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seeker242
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Re: Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

Post by seeker242 »

Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?
No, as suicide implies the killing and death of something. Meanwhile, Nibbana by definition, is the deathless realm. One also doesn't attain Nibbana by killing something. One attains Nibbana by gaining wisdom, seeing how things actually are. You don't kill false views, you gain wisdom and they just go away naturally as a consequence.
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salayatananirodha
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Re: Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

Post by salayatananirodha »

remainderless fading away and cessation
is that suicide? does the semantics of this matter
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


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salayatananirodha
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Re: Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

Post by salayatananirodha »

seeker242 wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:57 am
Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?
No, as suicide implies the killing and death of something. Meanwhile, Nibbana by definition, is the deathless realm. One also doesn't attain Nibbana by killing something. One attains Nibbana by gaining wisdom, seeing how things actually are. You don't kill false views, you gain wisdom and they just go away naturally as a consequence.
buddha condoned the killing of greed, hate and delusion
multiple suttas
unskillful qualities are annihilated by their root
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadhamma/
https://seeingthroughthenet.net/books/
http://buddhadust.net/backmatter/indexe ... ta_toc.htm
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
Laurens
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Re: Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

Post by Laurens »

I don't think it is possible to describe Nirvana, so I'd say no.

It's like the term 'sunrise' we know the phenomena to which that term is applied, but the sun isn't actually rising, the face of the earth that we are on currently is turning to meet the sun, it merely appears from our perspective to rise in the sky. It only describes it from a limited perspective, and it doesn't accurately tell us what is really going on. Furthermore even if the terminology were accurate it doesn't actually explain the experience of the phenomena. You couldn't convey sunrise to someone who had never seen the sun. Much like you cannot convey Nirvana to someone who has never experienced it.

So saying "it's like suicide only good, and you don't die" is meaningless. Nirvana is not to be likened anything conceptual.
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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seeker242
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Re: Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

Post by seeker242 »

salayatananirodha wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:26 pm
seeker242 wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:57 am
Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?
No, as suicide implies the killing and death of something. Meanwhile, Nibbana by definition, is the deathless realm. One also doesn't attain Nibbana by killing something. One attains Nibbana by gaining wisdom, seeing how things actually are. You don't kill false views, you gain wisdom and they just go away naturally as a consequence.
buddha condoned the killing of greed, hate and delusion
multiple suttas
unskillful qualities are annihilated by their root
He also stated that craving for annihilation is a wrong view. :meditate:
does the semantics of this matter
Seems that is all that matters. :smile:
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confusedlayman
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Re: Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

Post by confusedlayman »

seeker242 wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:41 am
salayatananirodha wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:26 pm
seeker242 wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:57 am

No, as suicide implies the killing and death of something. Meanwhile, Nibbana by definition, is the deathless realm. One also doesn't attain Nibbana by killing something. One attains Nibbana by gaining wisdom, seeing how things actually are. You don't kill false views, you gain wisdom and they just go away naturally as a consequence.
buddha condoned the killing of greed, hate and delusion
multiple suttas
unskillful qualities are annihilated by their root
He also stated that craving for annihilation is a wrong view. :meditate:
does the semantics of this matter
Seems that is all that matters. :smile:
craving for annhilation is having a self and try to kill the self....

but if u have no self just experience by process, and expeirence is off when process if off, its not annhilation
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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seeker242
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Re: Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

Post by seeker242 »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:43 pm
but if u have no self just experience by process, and expeirence is off when process if off, its not annhilation
Alright, but if that's the case, then there isn't anything to kill, or suicide, to begin with. And if that's the case, then Nibbana cannot be a suicide since the whole notion would be irrelevant.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

Post by confusedlayman »

seeker242 wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:56 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:43 pm
but if u have no self just experience by process, and expeirence is off when process if off, its not annhilation
Alright, but if that's the case, then there isn't anything to kill, or suicide, to begin with. And if that's the case, then Nibbana cannot be a suicide since the whole notion would be irrelevant.
so dont sucide
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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seeker242
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Re: Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

Post by seeker242 »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:31 pm
seeker242 wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:56 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:43 pm
but if u have no self just experience by process, and expeirence is off when process if off, its not annhilation
Alright, but if that's the case, then there isn't anything to kill, or suicide, to begin with. And if that's the case, then Nibbana cannot be a suicide since the whole notion would be irrelevant.
so dont sucide
Not planning on it. However, that's not the issue being discussed. What is being discussed is the question "Is Nirvana a suicide". And I'm discussing why the answer should be no. :smile:
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confusedlayman
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Re: Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

Post by confusedlayman »

seeker242 wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:42 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:31 pm
seeker242 wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:56 pm

Alright, but if that's the case, then there isn't anything to kill, or suicide, to begin with. And if that's the case, then Nibbana cannot be a suicide since the whole notion would be irrelevant.
so dont sucide
Not planning on it. However, that's not the issue being discussed. What is being discussed is the question "Is Nirvana a suicide". And I'm discussing why the answer should be no. :smile:
what is meaning of sucide?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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seeker242
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Re: Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

Post by seeker242 »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:46 pm
seeker242 wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:42 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:31 pm

so dont sucide
Not planning on it. However, that's not the issue being discussed. What is being discussed is the question "Is Nirvana a suicide". And I'm discussing why the answer should be no. :smile:
what is meaning of sucide?
Good question. The OP will have to define exactly what that means to answer that. But according to English dictionaries it can mean 2 things.

a : the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally
b : ruin of one's own interests AKA Political Suicide, etc.

It's definitely not A and it could be argued that it's the exact opposite of B. And at least in English, the word suicide is typically never used in a good sense to begin with.

:smile:
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confusedlayman
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Re: Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

Post by confusedlayman »

seeker242 wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:53 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:46 pm
seeker242 wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:42 pm

Not planning on it. However, that's not the issue being discussed. What is being discussed is the question "Is Nirvana a suicide". And I'm discussing why the answer should be no. :smile:
what is meaning of sucide?
Good question. The OP will have to define exactly what that means to answer that. But according to English dictionaries it can mean 2 things.

a : the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally
b : ruin of one's own interests AKA Political Suicide, etc.

It's definitely not A and it could be argued that it's the exact opposite of B. And at least in English, the word suicide is typically never used in a good sense to begin with.

:smile:
If nirvana is sucide, then sucide from what? we can use better words like "escape" from suffering etc
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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seeker242
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Re: Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

Post by seeker242 »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:57 pm
If nirvana is sucide, then sucide from what? we can use better words like "escape" from suffering etc
Yes, that is why the answer to the question posed is no.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Is Nirvana a suicide in the good sense of the word?

Post by confusedlayman »

seeker242 wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:00 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:57 pm
If nirvana is sucide, then sucide from what? we can use better words like "escape" from suffering etc
Yes, that is why the answer to the question posed is no.
oh sorry, i was confused.. i felt stoned and lack of awareness maybe due to sleepiness...

i have no idea why i cliked other.. i change the vote now haha
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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