On the Necessity of the Abhidhamma

[Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta]

(Understand and Practice the Dhamma):

imo, "The Dhamma", here, can be interpreted in more than one way. And, there were the differences in approaches even amongst Buddha's immediate disciples.

In some thriving traditions today, the proficiency in Abhidhamma is compulsory for the teachers but not necessary for the meditation students. I think, Mahasi is one such tradition. In a video, Chan Myae Sayadaw, one of the foremost students of Mahasi, answered to a foreign layman student that Abhidhamma was not necessary for that particular student's practice, while Vissudhimagga was important.

Another interesting point for me is that Mogok Sayadaw, arguably the most well known Abhidhamma teacher for monastics in his days gave his laymen-meditation-students guided meditations probably exclusively in the perspectives of suttas, imo.

Abhidhamma is a must for perpetuation of Buddha's Dhamma as a whole, serving as a stronghold. For individual liberation, it may or may not be necessary as a prerequisite knowledge, depending upon the approach and the person's constitution.

To sum up,
--> Helpful to some but not needed by others. And, a must for strong perpetuation of Buddha's Dhamma as a whole.

[Ceisiwr]

I think there has been an Abhidhamma since the time of the Buddha.

The various Vinaya accounts of the compilation of the Buddhist canon after the death of the Buddha offer various sometimes conflicting narratives regarding the canonical status of Abhidharma.[18] While the Mahāsāṅghika Vinaya does not speak of an Abhidharma apart from the Sutra Pitaka and the Vinaya Pitaka, the Mahīśāsaka, Theravāda, Dharmaguptaka and Sarvāstivāda Vinayas all provide different accounts which mention that there was some kind of Abhidharma to be learned aside form the Sutras and Vinaya.[19] According to Analayo, "the Mūlasarvāstivāda Vinaya does not explicitly mention the Abhidharma, although it reports that on this occasion Mahākāśyapa recited the mātṛkā(s)."[20] Analayo thinks that this reflects an early stage, when what later became Abhidharma was called the mātṛkās. The term appears in some sutras, such as the Mahāgopālaka-sutta (and its parallel) which says that a learned monk is one who knows the Dharma, Vinaya and the mātṛkās.[21]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhidharma

It’s when a mendicant doesn’t from time to time go up to those mendicants who are very learned—knowledgeable in the scriptures, who have memorized the teachings, the texts on monastic training, and the outlines—and ask them questions:

Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu ye te bhikkhū bahussutā āgatāgamā dhammadharā vinayadharā mātikādharā, te kālena kālaṃ upasaṅkamitvā na paripucchati, na paripañhati:

https://suttacentral.net/mn33/en/sujato

The Abhidhamma is just a more rigorous form of all of the lists we see in the suttas. It likely existed during the time of the Buddha.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Ceisiwir,

Left undefined, mātikādharā, could just as easily refer to the numerous suttas which resemble the Abhidhamma extract shared earlier.

For example...

“These two things, mendicants, are dark. What two? Lack of conscience and prudence. These are the two things that are dark.”

“These two things, mendicants, are bright. What two? Conscience and prudence. These are the two things that are bright.”

“There are, mendicants, these two entries to the rainy season. What two? Earlier and later. These are the two entries to the rainy season.”

“There are, mendicants, these two ways of teaching the Dhamma. What two? In brief and in detail. These are two ways of teaching the Dhamma.”

Those are "full" suttas by the way... not extracts.

Metta,
Paul.

[Ceisiwr]

The earliest Buddhist literature was composed orally and built up around lists. From the ever-growing body of literature, the Buddhist tradition began to abstract lists and to compile composite lists. The development of this pro­ cess led to the development of the matikas proper. The matikas were seen as encapsulating the essence of the Dhamma; as such they were also seen as sources for the further exposition of the Dhamma. Expositions based on the matikas could reveal the Dhamma in its fullness, and so, in part, the Abhid- hamma— the further Dhamma, the higher Dhamma— was born. Especially characteristic of the Abhidhamma proper is the use of the triplet-couplet matika combined with the core matikd that was the basis of the old samyutta collection.

The lists and subsequent matikas aided memorization of the Dhamma not only by enabling one to conveniently sum up vast amounts of teaching, but also by helping one to find one's way around it; they provided a map of the Dhamma. The lists also formed a part of the practice of the Dhamma. The recitation and repetition of the lists of the Abhidhamma constituted a medi­ tation exercise in itself that cultivated insight, wisdom, and mindfulness and inspired faith in the teaching of the Buddha. In sum, the matikas seem to combine, in a distinctively Buddhist fashion, elements of memorization, mindfulness, and meditation; from the womb of the matikas these emerge as one.

https://www.academia.edu/24132029/The_M ... d_the_List

[Cause_and_Effect]

i would potentially even say it's better to go without it

[SarathW]

It appears, I have miss this important OP.
I voted (1)as it is necessary to understand Abhidhamma to be a good practitioner.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

I voted (1)as it is necessary to understand Abhidhamma to be a good practitioner.

It's a shame that the Buddha didn't understand it then, as he'd never even heard of it.

But whatever makes you a "good practitioner", I suppose.

Metta,
Paul.

[sunnat]

I vote 1 and 2 plus three because it summarises 1 and 2

[SarathW]

Greetings,

I voted (1)as it is necessary to understand Abhidhamma to be a good practitioner.

It's a shame that the Buddha didn't understand it then, as he'd never even heard of it.

But whatever makes you a "good practitioner", I suppose.

Metta,
Paul.

I see your point.
But you have to understand we do not have Buddha today and the people capable in realising the Dhamma without detailed analysis.

Jechbi: (1) Is it an accurate understanding of the teaching that only Padaparama and Neyya humans are born now?

Dhammanando: ugghaṭitaññūs and vipañcitaññūs are generally held not to exist any more

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1105&p=640235#p640235

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

But you have to understand we do not have Buddha today and the people capable in realising the Dhamma without detailed analysis.

Jechbi: (1) Is it an accurate understanding of the teaching that only Padaparama and Neyya humans are born now?

Dhammanando: ugghaṭitaññūs and vipañcitaññūs are generally held not to exist any more

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1105&p=640235#p640235

And you have to understand that what is presented above is commentarial doctrine, once again not taught by the Buddha.

So once again you're demonstrating how a partisan sectarian understanding of the Dhamma simply reinforces its own doctrines, and in doing so veers away from understanding the Dhamma on its own merits.

Metta,
Paul.

[samseva]

Didn't vote, since the options of the poll are either 100% (necessary), 40% (helpful) or 0-10% (not necessary).

I would add (equivalent to 70%): "not necessary, but highly beneficial."

[SarathW]

Didn't vote, since the options of the poll are either 100% (necessary), 40% (helpful) or 0-10% (not necessary).

I would add (equivalent to 70%): "not necessary, but highly beneficial."

I agree with your point but chose the best or the closest option.

[Ontheway]

I voted the first, but...

To a layperson that just observe 5 precepts or 8 precepts during Uposatha days, occasionally joining retreat, occasionally Dana and chanting the scriptures, Abhidhamma Pitaka might be optional for them to study. Just Suttanta scriptures that specially spoken to householders will do (eg: Sigalaka Sutta). That will reap great worldly benefits for them too.

To someone that really want to destroy fetters and attain Nibbana in future, need to have pure Sila, practice Bhavana, and master the Dhamma concepts correctly in order to get rid of Wrong Views, that person will need to read both Suttanta correctly and have at least the basic Abhidhamma knowledge (Citta, Cetasika, Rupa, and Nibbana). But in order to penetrate the deep Abhidhamma and gain wisdom, one have to develop Samadhi in order to see things as they are. For knowledge doesn't mean Wisdom. Knowledge is merely Sanna.

If a person still cannot see beings as Namarupa (Nama: Citta, Cetasika; Rupa: rupa or Nama: Vedana, Sanna, Sankhara, Vinnana; Rupa: rupa), then the person might still have Sakkaya Ditthi. Therefore, Abhidhamma is quite important in this matter.

Now I am still a layperson, got first exposure to Abhidhamma knowledge via the short 7 short introductory passages of Abhidhamma Pitaka in Thai Buddhist Chanting book. Then I read the detailed explanation in Visuddhimagga, along with Abhidhammattha Sangha. Having understood the basic tenets (Citta, Cetasika, Rupa and Nibbana) from these works, I am now slowly proceed to the Dhammasangani Matika. It helps a lot in clearing my doubts about Ditthi.

[SarathW]

Agree.
For a Buddhist mainly concentrate on Sila And Samadhi, the sutta is quite adequate.
However when it comes to Panna and practice Satipathana, the Abhidhamma is a great benefit.
In my opinon, those people who voted that Abhidhamma is not necessary (option 2) have never read Abhidhamma or who are overwhelmed by the teaching. Perhaps they should start with some easy reading with a Abhidhamma summary.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el322.html

[retrofuturist]

Greetings SarathW,

.
In my opinon, those people who voted that Abhidhamma is not necessary (option 2) have never read Abhidhamma or who are overwhelmed by the teaching. Perhaps they should start with some easy reading with a Abhidhamma summary.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el322.html

(Spoken as a forum member, not in any official capacity...)

Stop evangelizing the Abhidhamma to people when they have made a conscious decision not to embrace it. Your reasons given for why people reject the Abhidhamma are simple-minded, condescending and reflect a lack of understanding of others perspectives, despite them having been presented to you countless times.

Metta,
Paul.