Is oneness same as nothingness?

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form
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Is oneness same as nothingness?

Post by form »

I am listening to Bhikkhu Thanisarro talks recently and I am now reading his writings. In his translation of one of his teacher's material, he seems to use the term oneness to replace the more commonly used nothingness.

Am I correct to assume that?
sentinel
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Re: Is oneness same as nothingness?

Post by sentinel »

No
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Is oneness same as nothingness?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Nothingness isn't anything. Nothingness does not exist beyond mere concept.
Saññāvirattassa na santi ganthā,
Paññāvimuttassa na santi mohā;
Saññañca diṭṭhiñca ye aggahesuṃ,
Te ghaṭṭayantā vicaranti loke”ti.


“For one detached from perception, there exist no ties,
for one by wisdom freed, no delusions are there,
but those who have grasped perceptions and views,
they wander the world stirring up strife."


Māgaṇḍiya Sutta
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DooDoot
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Re: Is oneness same as nothingness?

Post by DooDoot »

no
The Realized One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha directly knows earth as earth. But he doesn’t identify with earth, he doesn’t identify regarding earth, he doesn’t identify as earth, he doesn’t identify that ‘earth is mine’, he doesn’t take pleasure in earth. Why is that? Because he has understood that relishing is the root of suffering, and that rebirth comes from continued existence; whoever has come to be gets old and dies. That’s why the Realized One—with the ending, fading away, cessation, giving up, and letting go of all cravings—has awakened to the supreme perfect Awakening, I say.

He directly knows water … fire … air … creatures … gods … the Creator … Brahmā … the gods of streaming radiance … the gods replete with glory … the gods of abundant fruit … the Overlord … the dimension of infinite space … the dimension of infinite consciousness … the dimension of nothingness … the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception … the seen … the heard … the thought … the known … oneness … diversity … all … He directly knows extinguishment as extinguishment. But he doesn’t identify with extinguishment, he doesn’t identify regarding extinguishment, he doesn’t identify as extinguishment, he doesn’t identify that ‘extinguishment is mine’, he doesn’t take pleasure in extinguishment. Why is that? Because he has understood that relishing is the root of suffering, and that rebirth comes from continued existence; whoever has come to be gets old and dies. That’s why the Realized One—with the ending, fading away, cessation, giving up, and letting go of all cravings—has awakened to the supreme perfect Awakening, I say.”

https://suttacentral.net/mn1/en/sujato
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justindesilva
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Re: Is oneness same as nothingness?

Post by justindesilva »

DooDoot wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:59 am no
The Realized One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha directly knows earth as earth. But he doesn’t identify with earth, he doesn’t identify regarding earth, he doesn’t identify as earth, he doesn’t identify that ‘earth is mine’, he doesn’t take pleasure in earth. Why is that? Because he has understood that relishing is the root of suffering, and that rebirth comes from continued existence; whoever has come to be gets old and dies. That’s why the Realized One—with the ending, fading away, cessation, giving up, and letting go of all cravings—has awakened to the supreme perfect Awakening, I say.

He directly knows water … fire … air … creatures … gods … the Creator … Brahmā … the gods of streaming radiance … the gods replete with glory … the gods of abundant fruit … the Overlord … the dimension of infinite space … the dimension of infinite consciousness … the dimension of nothingness … the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception … the seen … the heard … the thought … the known … oneness … diversity … all … He directly knows extinguishment as extinguishment. But he doesn’t identify with extinguishment, he doesn’t identify regarding extinguishment, he doesn’t identify as extinguishment, he doesn’t identify that ‘extinguishment is mine’, he doesn’t take pleasure in extinguishment. Why is that? Because he has understood that relishing is the root of suffering, and that rebirth comes from continued existence; whoever has come to be gets old and dies. That’s why the Realized One—with the ending, fading away, cessation, giving up, and letting go of all cravings—has awakened to the supreme perfect Awakening, I say.”

https://suttacentral.net/mn1/en/sujato
Oneness or nothingness is all about the mind. It has nothing to do anything with matter Rupa. Let me express this in another manner of experience. When I try to gather my past with my friends parents and whoever I realise that though I seem to remember it , it is nothingness or sunyata or non existent.
It is because of dependant co origination. There was a past which arise with Avidya. That was the condition of Sankara that created the following conditions as vingnana, nama Rupa
Salayatana, phassa, vedana, tanha, upadana, Bhava, jati, jaramarana; Each condition arises dependantly , and vanishes to become nothingness. All becomes a sunyata yet it is the mind at present ( a kshana) that could be said is in existence.
But all energies existing with the mind in a kshana can be grasped if the mind is void of lobha dosa moha. It is these klesha that does not allow the mind to unite as was shown by Lord buddas by taking Mara. Oneness is the collective mind overpowering all klesha.
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Re: Is oneness same as nothingness?

Post by confusedlayman »

Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:50 am Nothingness isn't anything. Nothingness does not exist beyond mere concept.
I agree
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form
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Re: Is oneness same as nothingness?

Post by form »

Let me find the passage link and the exact timing to post here for your kind opinions.
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Re: Is oneness same as nothingness?

Post by form »

https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Purit ... n0013.html

....... body started dissolving into a formless mist, this process would involve detecting the perceptions of “space,” “knowing,” “oneness,” etc., that would appear in place of the body and could be peeled away like the layers of an onion in the mind.

From middle portion of the second last paragraph.

Does it mean, infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness?
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Re: Is oneness same as nothingness?

Post by santa100 »

Ven. Bodhi's note citing the Comy's explanation on ekatta( oneness, or unity ):
Ekattam. Spk: He asks whether it has a permanent nature (niccasabhava);
In SN 12.48, it's one of the four views to be abandoned:
SN 12.48 wrote:Avoiding these two extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma via the middle: From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media. From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.
And Ven. Thanissaro concurred in his essay "Jhana Not by the Numbers":
JNBTN wrote:Once the breath was perfectly still, and the sense of the body started dissolving into a formless mist, this process would involve detecting the perceptions of “space,” “knowing,” “oneness,” etc., that would appear in place of the body and could be peeled away like the layers of an onion in the mind. In either case, the basic pattern was the same: detecting the level of perception or mental fabrication that was causing the unnecessary stress, and dropping it for a more subtle level of perception or fabrication until there was nothing left to drop.
form
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Re: Is oneness same as nothingness?

Post by form »

Please stay on the topic. Based on my reference, does the article use oneness to represent nothingness?
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confusedlayman
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Re: Is oneness same as nothingness?

Post by confusedlayman »

one ness means conceptually u perceive same everywhere or in n number of object of observation.

if something like color shape etc is used to describe sameness of continuity then its oneness. but if space is used its both oneness as well as nothingness.
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bodom
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Re: Is oneness same as nothingness?

Post by bodom »

Article from Bhikkhu Thanissaro

We Are Not One
https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Noble ... n0007.html

:namaste:
But how is a wise lay follower defined?”

“It’s when a lay follower is wise. They have the wisdom of arising and passing away which is noble, penetrative, and leads to the complete ending of suffering. Then they’re considered to be a wise lay follower.”

- SN 55:37
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DooDoot
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Re: Is oneness same as nothingness?

Post by DooDoot »

confusedlayman wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:41 pm I agree
The above agreement is wrong. Nothingness is not a concept.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Is oneness same as nothingness?

Post by confusedlayman »

DooDoot wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:47 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:41 pm I agree
The above agreement is wrong. Nothingness is not a concept.
Why
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DooDoot
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Re: Is oneness same as nothingness?

Post by DooDoot »

confusedlayman wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:48 pm Why
Why. Nothingness is not a concept. This idea is the puthujjana doctrine of the puthujjana Nagarjuna.
"Furthermore, with the complete transcending of perceptions of [physical] form, with the disappearance of perceptions of resistance, and not heeding perceptions of diversity, [perceiving,] 'Infinite space,' Sariputta entered & remained in the dimension of the infinitude of space.

"Furthermore, with the complete transcending of the dimension of the infinitude of space, [perceiving,] 'Infinite consciousness,' Sariputta entered & remained in the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness.

"Furthermore, with the complete transcending of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, [perceiving,] 'There is nothing,' Sariputta entered & remained in the dimension of nothingness.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Nothingness occurs when there are no more salient objects to perceive because the mind has become so pure with very refined samadhi; so the mind perceives: "There is nothing". After this, the mind stops perceiving.

A "concept" is always a concept about something. For example, the concept of "water" is about water. Water itself is not the concept. When you want to take a bath and clean the dirt from your body, it is not a concept cleaning the dirt from your body. When you are thirsty and need to drink water; it is not a concept quenching your thirst. Nothingness is the same. Nothingness is a thing but not the concept.

The Buddha did not ever teach things are merely concepts. Your doctrine is Mahayana; which is wrong view. This false ideology is SteRo ideology and Nagarjuna foolishness. Nagarjuna was puthujjana. The Buddha taught the PEACEFULNESS & JOY of ending five hindrances. Nagarjuna cannot end the five hindrances.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
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