Did the Buddha Ever Visit Sri Lanka?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
lostitude
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:02 am

Re: Did the Buddha Ever Visit Sri Lanka?

Post by lostitude »

Reality check: what monks actually do on a daily basis is sit and think, and then move around a little bit. There is no sensible reason to believe sitting around all day is going to develop an ability to fly. Except in an imaginary world.
User avatar
Lucas Oliveira
Posts: 1240
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Did the Buddha Ever Visit Sri Lanka?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

lostitude wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:52 pm
Lucas Oliveira wrote:
my luck was that before I started studying Buddhism I studied spirituality and found many scientific works that bought various subjects about spirituality ..

:namaste:
No offense but I think you meant quackery paraded as scientific works. If those stories had any scientific grounding to them, I'm pretty sure everyone would know because it would hit the headlines.
lostitude wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:55 pm Reality check: what monks actually do on a daily basis is sit and think, and then move around a little bit. There is no sensible reason to believe sitting around all day is going to develop an ability to fly. Except in an imaginary world.
Brain activity and meditation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_act ... meditation

What is Meditation and How It Affects Our Brains
https://buffer.com/resources/how-medita ... our-brain/

Different meditation types train distinct parts of your brain
https://www.newscientist.com/article/21 ... our-brain/
Meditation changes temperatures
Mind controls body in extreme experiments
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/ ... peratures/

Explained: How Tibetan Monks Use Meditation To Raise Their Body Temperature
https://www.buzzworthy.com/monks-raise- ... mperature/

Benson’s findings give testament to the immense power of the human mind. But this is only an example of how little we truly know about it, and how meditation can be a path towards understanding and controlling it better.
E=mc2: Everything is Energy - why do we continue to ignore the energetic truth?
https://www.universalmedicine.co.uk/art ... etic-truth
Is Scientific Materialism "Almost Certainly False"?
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cr ... nly-false/

Why Materialism Is False, and Why It Has Nothing To Do with the Mind
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... 88EE468EAE
:namaste:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
User avatar
Lucas Oliveira
Posts: 1240
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Did the Buddha Ever Visit Sri Lanka?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

justindesilva wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:20 pm
Yet until Arhat Mahinda brought damma to Sri Lanka 250 years later since parinirvsna there is no evidence of Sri lankans following Buddhism.
Good point..
The Dipavamsa and the Mahavamsa, Sri Lanka's two great religious chronicles, contain accounts of Mahinda travelling to Sri Lanka and converting King Devanampiyatissa.[2] These are the primary sources for accounts of his life and deeds. Inscriptions and literary references also establish that Buddhism became prevalent in Sri Lanka around the 3rd century BCE, the period when Mahinda lived.[2] The inscription in Rajagala monastery confirm the fact that Thera Mahinda came to Sri Lanka to propagate Buddhism and lived there until his death.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahinda_(Buddhist_monk)
this is the same text that started this topic..

:namaste:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
lostitude
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:02 am

Re: Did the Buddha Ever Visit Sri Lanka?

Post by lostitude »

Lucas Oliveira wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:22 pm Brain activity and meditation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_act ... meditation

What is Meditation and How It Affects Our Brains
https://buffer.com/resources/how-medita ... our-brain/

Different meditation types train distinct parts of your brain
https://www.newscientist.com/article/21 ... our-brain/
Meditation changes temperatures
Mind controls body in extreme experiments
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/ ... peratures/

Explained: How Tibetan Monks Use Meditation To Raise Their Body Temperature
https://www.buzzworthy.com/monks-raise- ... mperature/
I suggest you look into "psychogenic fever". Body temperature constantly changes with mood and emotions. There is absolutely nothing extroardinary or supernatural about this.

Same with brain plasticity, which has been known for many years and is nothing supernatural or surprising.
E=mc2: Everything is Energy - why do we continue to ignore the energetic truth?
https://www.universalmedicine.co.uk/art ... etic-truth
Pure quackery. I stopped at the sentence where she explains that the c in E=mc2 stands for light "which is also energy".
Oh and for good measure I looked up her Einstein quote... it’s fake!

Your last two links are just philosophical musings on what science supposedly is or isn’t. There is nothing here or there to support any evidence for superpowers, and there can’t be any, because there is simply zero science behind superpowers stories.
User avatar
Lucas Oliveira
Posts: 1240
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Did the Buddha Ever Visit Sri Lanka?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

lostitude wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:39 pm I suggest you look into "psychogenic fever". Body temperature constantly changes with mood and emotions. There is absolutely nothing extroardinary or supernatural about this.

Same with brain plasticity, which has been known for many years and is nothing supernatural or surprising.
E=mc2: Everything is Energy - why do we continue to ignore the energetic truth?
https://www.universalmedicine.co.uk/art ... etic-truth
Pure quackery. I stopped at the sentence where she explains that the c in E=mc2 stands for light "which is also energy".
Oh and for good measure I looked up her Einstein quote... it’s fake!

Your last two links are just philosophical musings on what science supposedly is or isn’t. There is nothing here or there to support any evidence for superpowers, and there can’t be any, because there is simply zero science behind superpowers stories.
Did someone with "psychogenic fever" manage to do what these monks do?

Didn't the Scientists know that?

E=mc2 Is fake?

:namaste:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
lostitude
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:02 am

Re: Did the Buddha Ever Visit Sri Lanka?

Post by lostitude »

Lucas Oliveira wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:24 pm
Did someone with "psychogenic fever" manage to do what these monks do?
Yes, and even untrained people with no meditations skils can manage the same thing, according to another study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3612090/
There is currently no evidence, however, indicating that temperatures are elevated beyond the normal range during g-tummo meditation. The visual effect of steaming sheets reported by eye-witnesses of the g-tummo ceremony cannot be taken as evidence of elevated body temperature. Wet sheets wrapped around a practitioner’s body would steam and dry due to the significant temperature difference between the wet sheets (heated by a human body) and the cold air outside, even if the practitioners simply maintain their normal body temperature. As impressive as the peripheral body temperature increases during g-tummo meditation reported by Benson et al. might seem, they were in the range of normal body temperature (finger and toe temperatures increased from 22°C to 33°C). Furthermore, they did not exceed the peripheral body temperature increases reported in clinical studies of (non-meditating) individuals who were able to increase hand or finger temperature by up to 11.7°C during biofeedback alone or in combination with hypnosis, mental imagery, or autogenic training [9]–[11].
E=mc2 Is fake?
The explanations and the quote she uses to describe it are fake.

I think you are too easily impressed by scientific-sounding statements. Or maybe your reasoning is reversed: there is as specific belief you are fond of (superpowers), so you accept anything with a semblance of authority that confirms your belief, and neglect the rest. Confirmation bias.
User avatar
Lucas Oliveira
Posts: 1240
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Did the Buddha Ever Visit Sri Lanka?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

lostitude wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:29 pm
Lucas Oliveira wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:24 pm
Did someone with "psychogenic fever" manage to do what these monks do?
Yes, and even untrained people with no meditations skils can manage the same thing, according to another study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3612090/
There is currently no evidence, however, indicating that temperatures are elevated beyond the normal range during g-tummo meditation. The visual effect of steaming sheets reported by eye-witnesses of the g-tummo ceremony cannot be taken as evidence of elevated body temperature. Wet sheets wrapped around a practitioner’s body would steam and dry due to the significant temperature difference between the wet sheets (heated by a human body) and the cold air outside, even if the practitioners simply maintain their normal body temperature. As impressive as the peripheral body temperature increases during g-tummo meditation reported by Benson et al. might seem, they were in the range of normal body temperature (finger and toe temperatures increased from 22°C to 33°C). Furthermore, they did not exceed the peripheral body temperature increases reported in clinical studies of (non-meditating) individuals who were able to increase hand or finger temperature by up to 11.7°C during biofeedback alone or in combination with hypnosis, mental imagery, or autogenic training [9]–[11].
E=mc2 Is fake?
The explanations and the quote she uses to describe it are fake.

I think you are too easily impressed by scientific-sounding statements. Or maybe your reasoning is reversed: there is as specific belief you are fond of (superpowers), so you accept anything with a semblance of authority that confirms your belief, and neglect the rest. Confirmation bias.
How is this possible? The monks were using a yoga technique known as g Tum-mo, which allowed them to enter a state of deep meditation and significantly raise their body heat, some as much as 17 degrees (Fahrenheit) in their fingers and toes.
https://www.buzzworthy.com/monks-raise- ... mperature/
can any inexperienced person do this?
Unfortunately, these findings have subsequently been distorted in reports in other sources, possibly due to confusion between Fahrenheit and Centigrade scales or lack of clear specification regarding the anatomical sites of temperature measurement, leading to general claims of temperature increases during g-tummo ranging from “… up to 15 degrees only within a few moments of concentration” [3] to “17 degrees in peripheral body temperature” [8]
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3612090/
what kind of scientist accuses other scientific work of having some confusion with Fahrenheit and Centigrade scales?

this discussion started because you said that you did not have an open mind to accept that psychic powers described in the Suttas.
In physics, mass–energy equivalence is the principle that anything having mass has an equivalent amount of energy and vice versa, with these fundamental quantities directly relating to one another by Albert Einstein's famous formula:[1]

This formula states that the equivalent energy (E) can be calculated as the mass (m) multiplied by the square of the speed of light (c). Similarly, anything having energy exhibits a corresponding mass m given by its energy E divided by the speed of light squared c2. Because the speed of light is a large number in everyday units (approximately 3×108 m/s), the formula implies that even an everyday object at rest with a modest amount of mass has a very large amount of intrinsic energy. Chemical reactions, nuclear reactions, and other energy transformations may cause a system to lose some of its energy content to the environment (and thus some corresponding mass), for example, by releasing it as thermal energy or as radiant energy, such as light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass%E2%8 ... quivalence
This formula could be enough to open your mind or simply not deny the facts that the psychic powers described in the suttas are possible.

patience.

:namaste:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/
BKh
Posts: 439
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Did the Buddha Ever Visit Sri Lanka?

Post by BKh »

Lots of off topic stuff!!! If you want to discuss the possibility of psychic powers in general, please start a new thread. Maybe the mods could move those posts to a new thread.
:offtopic: (I'm actually not as mad as the fellow in the emoji, but I would love it if the original topic could be respected)
justindesilva wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:20 pm Lord budda advised his desciples not to use psychic powers (iddi) unless it was unavoidable.
As pertains to the OP, we are talking about the Buddha, so his advice for his disciples is good to know, but not really for the Buddha to follow. Although many monks could use psychic powers, we can assume that the Buddha, as a unique individual, would know the proper time to use them. And he used them quite a bit for the good of others.
ReadingFaithfully.org Daily Practice with the Suttas | BuddhaRupa Images of the Buddha across time and space
lostitude
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:02 am

Re: Did the Buddha Ever Visit Sri Lanka?

Post by lostitude »

Lucas Oliveira wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:09 pm
what kind of scientist accuses other scientific work of having some confusion with Fahrenheit and Centigrade scales?
Three things here:
1/Scientists contradict other scientists all the time. That’s what makes science progress.
2/Lots of studies are flawed in several ways. That’s why it’s never enough to just read the abstract and the authors’ credentials.
3/You misunderstood the quoted passage. It doesn’t say what you think it’s saying.

This formula could be enough to open your mind or simply not deny the facts that the psychic powers described in the suttas are possible.
Absolutely not. There is not a shred of evidence or even logic linking E=mc2 to psychic powers. Only imagination and wishful thinking.
BKh wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:09 am Lots of off topic stuff!!! If you want to discuss the possibility of psychic powers in general, please start a new thread. Maybe the mods could move those posts to a new thread.
:offtopic: (I'm actually not as mad as the fellow in the emoji, but I would love it if the original topic could be respected)
justindesilva wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:20 pm Lord budda advised his desciples not to use psychic powers (iddi) unless it was unavoidable.
As pertains to the OP, we are talking about the Buddha, so his advice for his disciples is good to know, but not really for the Buddha to follow. Although many monks could use psychic powers, we can assume that the Buddha, as a unique individual, would know the proper time to use them. And he used them quite a bit for the good of others.
I beg to differ. The whole premise of this thread is that the Buddha used psychic powers to visit Sri Lanka, and in your last response, you go back to this point yourself. Can we really discuss this topic without adressing the elephant in the room, i.e. blind belief in superpower myths and legends? I don’t think so.
User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
Posts: 4130
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Did the Buddha Ever Visit Sri Lanka?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

There is plenty of evidence in the Tipiṭaka that the Buddha used his psychic powers for travelling to distant places. The reason that his alleged visit to Sri Lanka should be rejected is that it is not mentioned in the Tipiṭaka, its Commentaries, or Subcommentaries. It is only mentioned in later works such as the Mahāvaṃsa. Thus, the claims do not meet the criteria for deciding what the Buddha taught as stated in the Four Greater References of the Mahāparinibbāna Sutta.

Extract from Kevaṭṭa Sutta

The Householder’s Son Kevaṭṭa

481. Thus have I heard — at one time the Blessed One was dwelling at Nāḷandā in Pāvārika’s mango grove. Then the householder’s son Kevaṭṭa approached the Blessed One, and having approached, paid homage, and sat down at one side. Sitting at one side, the householder’s son Kevaṭṭa said to the Blessed One: “Venerable sir, this Nāḷandā is prosperous, wealthy, and populous, full of people who have faith in the Blessed One. It would be good, venerable sir, if the Blessed One would instruct one monk to perform a superhuman ¹ mystic wonder (pāṭihāriya) of psychic power (iddhi), thus this Nāḷandā would grow in faith for the Blessed One.”

When this was said, the Blessed One said to Kevaṭṭa, the householder’s son: “I do not, Kevaṭṭa, teach the Dhamma to the monks thus: ‘Go and perform a superhuman feat of psychic power for householders dressed in white.”

482. [A second and a third time, Kevaṭṭa, the householder’s son, repeated his request, and the Blessed One replied as before]. [212]

The Mystic Wonder of Psychic Powers
483. “Kevaṭṭa, there are these three mystic wonders (pāṭihāriya) which, having realised them myself by direct knowledge, I explain them. What three? The mystic wonder of psychic power (iddhipāṭihāriya), the mystic wonder of mind-reading (ādesanāpāṭihāriyaṃ), and the mystic wonder of instruction (anusāsanīpāṭihāriyaṃ).

484. “What, Kevaṭṭa, is the mystic wonder of psychic power (iddhipāṭihāriya)? Here, Kevaṭṭa, a monk displays various kinds of psychic power. Having been one, he becomes many; having been many, he becomes one; having been visible, he becomes invisible; having been invisible, he becomes visible; he passes through fences, walls, and mountains unhindered as if it was air; he plunges into the earth and emerges from it as if it was water; he sits cross-legged in the sky like a bird with wings; he touches with his hand the sun and the moon, mighty though they are; [213] he goes with his body even to the Brahma world.

“Then a certain person with faith (saddho) and devotion (passano)² sees that monk display various kinds of psychic power … Brahma world.

“Then that person with faith and devotion tells a person without faith and devotion: ‘It is wonderful, friend! It is marvellous, friend! The recluses are of great power and skill. Our monk displays various kinds of psychic power. Having been one, he becomes many … even to the Brahma world.

“Then that person without faith and devotion would say: ‘There is, friend, the Gandhārī charm. With that your monk displays various kinds of psychic power … Brahma world.

“What do you think, Kevaṭṭa? Wouldn’t a person without faith and devotion say that?” “They would say that, venerable sir.” “Seeing that danger in the mystic wonder of psychic powers, Kevaṭṭa, I am troubled by ³ the mystic wonder of psychic powers, I am ashamed of it, and I shun it.”

Notes:
1. Superhuman (uttarimanussadhamma). A state that is beyond the capability of ordinary human beings. A Vinaya rule forbids monks from exhibiting such powers. I do not know if the rule was laid down before or after the events described here.
2. Maurice Walshe translates these two terms (saddho passano) as “one with faith and trust,” and their opposites (assaddho appassano) as “one who is sceptical and unbelieving.” Ajahn Thanissaro translates them as “faith and conviction,” and “without faith and conviction.” The word “passano” is from the verb pasīdati = to be pleased, calm, peaceful, to find satisfaction.
3. Troubled by (aṭṭīyāmi), ashamed of it (harāyāmi), and shun it (jigucchāmi). The Buddha is free from anxiety and all other mental defilements, but he is concerned for the welfare of all beings. In this case, one without faith and devotion would have unwholesome thoughts that monks exhibiting mystic wonders are using magic tricks to deceive others. When illusionists perform magic tricks, some gullible people are deceived and shocked, while those who know how the tricks are done, or those who are sceptical are not deceived, even if they do not know the method, they know that is just an illusion. Superhuman feats are not tricks, but genuine psychic powers gained by those with deep concentration. To convince the sceptical it is better to use the miracle of instruction.
BlogPāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 3326
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm (as of now)

Re: Did the Buddha Ever Visit Sri Lanka?

Post by confusedlayman »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:33 am He took about six months to walk from Rājagaha to Kusinārā. He gave many teachings on the way.

After his Enlightenment he went out of his way to meet Upaka because it would benefit him.

After the first sixty monks became Arahants he sent them off telling them to travel alone and spread the teaching. That way the teaching would benefit as many as possible.

After every Rains Retreat, the Buddha set out on tour of the country to spread the teaching. That is eight months of the year was spent walking from village to village, from city to city.
yes.. also he didnt fly or teleport..
dont think
lostitude
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:02 am

Re: Did the Buddha Ever Visit Sri Lanka?

Post by lostitude »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:59 am There is plenty of evidence in the Tipiṭaka that the Buddha used his psychic powers for travelling to distant places.
I thought it was accepted by the mainstream that the tipitaka texts are not 100 % reliable in terms of authenticity of their narrative apparatus. Certainly flying around should be included in this category, because we have no sensible reason to believe in something that has never, ever been observed under controlled conditions, and it is simply much more likely and reasonable to accept that generation after generation, overly enthusiastic transmitters have added colorful accounts to make the whole thing look more appealing in their own opinion. Clearly it’s working...
User avatar
rhinoceroshorn
Posts: 773
Joined: Fri May 01, 2020 7:27 pm

Re: Did the Buddha Ever Visit Sri Lanka?

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

The Buddha talks exhaustively about supranormal powers. I bet out of 10 suttas in which he talks about jhānas, in 7 he talks about supranormal powers (when there is an opening).
I don't understand this questioning. If we start to doubt this petty thing, why not doubting rebirth, kamma, the whole Canon?
Without resistance in all four directions,
content with whatever you get,
enduring troubles with no dismay,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
But if they hit you with a stick...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a knife.'..."
"But if they hit you with a knife...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't take my life with a sharp knife.'..."
SN35.88
lostitude
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:02 am

Re: Did the Buddha Ever Visit Sri Lanka?

Post by lostitude »

rhinoceroshorn wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:32 am The Buddha talks exhaustively about supranormal powers. I bet out of 10 suttas in which he talks about jhānas, in 7 he talks about supranormal powers (when there is an opening).
I don't understand this questioning. If we start to doubt this petty thing, why not doubting rebirth, kamma, the whole Canon?
Because the rest doesn’t violate the laws of physics in such a blatant way, and because flying around is a very common motif in legends, myths and bedtime stories.
User avatar
rhinoceroshorn
Posts: 773
Joined: Fri May 01, 2020 7:27 pm

Re: Did the Buddha Ever Visit Sri Lanka?

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

lostitude wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:36 am
rhinoceroshorn wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:32 am The Buddha talks exhaustively about supranormal powers. I bet out of 10 suttas in which he talks about jhānas, in 7 he talks about supranormal powers (when there is an opening).
I don't understand this questioning. If we start to doubt this petty thing, why not doubting rebirth, kamma, the whole Canon?
Because the rest doesn’t violate the laws of physics in such a blatant way, and because flying around is a very common motif in legends, myths and bedtime stories.
All supranormal powers violate the laws of physics in a blatant way, my friend. :lol:

Read the quote again.
rhinoceroshorn wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:42 pm
form wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:20 pm Seems like the Buddha also have many of the same limitations a mortal has. Unless he really can fly, I dun see how he can travel to far away places or across the seas. He has no money to. There is also no way he can overcome the language and cultural barrier outside India. He needs to eat and how is he going to get alm offerings in China? Dhamma taught by him at that time need to have an ancient Indian religious background and settings as pre requisite.
Hello my friend.
May Mahāsīhanāda Sutta (mn 12) interest you.
In this sutta a monk disrobed because he didn't believe the Buddha had any supranormal power (he refused to show them to him).
5. "Sariputta, this misguided man Sunakkhatta...

6. "And he will never infer of me according to Dhamma: 'That Blessed One enjoys the various kinds of supernormal power: having been one, he becomes many; having been many, he becomes one; he appears and vanishes; he goes unhindered through a wall, through an enclosure, through a mountain, as though through space; he dives in and out of the earth as though it were water; he walks on water without sinking as though it were earth; seated cross-legged, he travels in space like a bird; with his hand he touches and strokes the moon and sun so powerful and mighty; he wields bodily mastery even as far as the Brahma-world.'
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .ntbb.html
Without resistance in all four directions,
content with whatever you get,
enduring troubles with no dismay,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
But if they hit you with a stick...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a knife.'..."
"But if they hit you with a knife...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't take my life with a sharp knife.'..."
SN35.88
Post Reply