Laurens wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 am
Firstly let me clarify that I'm not at all suicidal, concern is appreciated but unwarranted.
great
Laurens wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 amTo be clear
Unlikely. For the sake of Nibbana, it appears the teachings say impermanence & destruction is to be fully comprehended. also, mindfulness of death leads to the Deathless, per the suttas, it cannot mean rebirth after death, otherwise this would not be the Deathless
Laurens wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 am But it does raise the question.
'mischief'
Laurens wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 am In the rebirth model suicide does not solve the problem of suffering, as one will be reborn thus it is no legitimate escape.
the above idea of rebirth is merely a speculative view
Laurens wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 amWithout it, the result is the same we end up dead, and this is the release of suffering for the ignorant
the above has no relevance to the teachings of the Buddha. the Buddha taught a path to end suffering in the here & now
Laurens wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 am malevolent fool
sounds harsh
Laurens wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 amas for the one who devotes their life to meditation etc.
no. the successful meditation devotee lives a life of peace
Laurens wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 amSo the question becomes why put in the effort?
it is obvious you are not practising the Path. if you were, you would not disparage the Path, as you are doing above
Laurens wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 amIf you are desperate for the cessation of suffering why not commit suicide?
because of no interest in suicide. the buddha taught to practise like your head/hair is on fire. this is desparate practice, for the sake of here & now peace
Laurens wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 am If you don't do it because you enjoy being alive
what are you talking about? you are repeating yourself. you are not reading what others have already posted in reply to you
Laurens wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 am, why engage in any renunciation and just fully enjoy what is here to enjoy whilst you can?
because the is nothing in the sensual realm to enjoy here.
Laurens wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 amOne can say that Buddhist practises can improve the quality of life for a secular person and this might be true. But so far as I understand it, this is never put forth as a path in traditional Buddhism. no. the path of Buddhism is It seems to be either go the route of hardcore renunciate and try to attain liberation in this life, or lead a good life in the hopes that your subsequent births prove fortunate for attaining arahantship or at least to avoid hell, and aim for heaven etc. I don't recall the Buddha teaching in terms of making this life more pleasant as an end in itself.
in many places, he said the Dhamma was for a pleasant abiding in this life
Laurens wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 amI think taking out rebirth creates a big problem.
Rebirth creates a problem because it means self-view does not end. Self-view must end for Nibbana
Laurens wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:34 amThe motivation in Buddhism is to escape the cycle of suffering, that cycle has to continue beyond this life, otherwise Nibbana becomes one of two options for escape, and thus the question becomes, why aim at Nibbana? Why not just either end
your own life, if the suffering is unbearable, or if it is bearable just indulge
yourself and enjoy life?
The above post is self-view. Only eliminating self-view can reach Nibbana. It does matter how much you post about Nibbana. Nibbana will never ever be reached when self-view and rebirth view remain. The Buddha was clear about this.