Craving for aversion

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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form
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Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Craving for aversion

Post by form »

Craving for sense pleasure is a big feature in Buddhism, is craving for aversion something that is also valid?
santa100
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Re: Craving for aversion

Post by santa100 »

form wrote:Craving for sense pleasure is a big feature in Buddhism, is craving for aversion something that is also valid?
Obviously craving of any kind that serves as the fuel for the arising of the next links in 12-DO should be avoided (ie. from contact comes feeling, from feeling comes craving, craving to clinging, clinging to becoming, becoming to birth/death). But normally craving for sense pleasure is more frequently mentioned due to the simple fact that the overwhelming majority of unenlightened worldlings fall victims to the former kind, not the latter, ie. you'd much more likely to run into someone who craves for wealth, fame, power, women, etc. than one who craves for poverty, for constant abuse and exploitation, detestation from women, etc...
chownah
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Re: Craving for aversion

Post by chownah »

Is craving for aversion when someone seeks out things that disgust them?
Can someone have aversion for craving for aversion?
chownah
SarathW
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Re: Craving for aversion

Post by SarathW »

form wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:17 am Craving for sense pleasure is a big feature in Buddhism, is craving for aversion something that is also valid?
According to Abhidhamma attachment and aversion can't be in the same mental state.
When there is attachment there is no aversion.
When there is aversion there is no attachement.
They are two opposing mental states.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
form
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Re: Craving for aversion

Post by form »

I apologise for phrasing my question so badly at the start.

Let me try again. For example, if a person was provoked by a feature of another person, he went on to verbally abused or even doing some physical harm to the person, after the act he felt gratified for some reason. Is this craving for pleasure or craving for aversion? Or, delight in doing evil?
sunnat
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Post by sunnat »

Wanting pleasant feelings to stay or arise is craving.
Wanting unpleasant feelings to go away or stay away is aversion.


Another part to the questions answer is that the answer comes as a result of meditation, concentration and insight. Samadhi and Vipassana. Any answer arrived at by reasoning will always be tinged by ignorance.

In this, and many cases, consider the clinging to self. It is not so that one is provoked by a feature of another person. Instead, there are pleasant and unpleasant sights, sounds... feelings arising (within ones mind-body phenomenon, nowhere else) that are judged according to underlying tendencies.
2600htz
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Re: Craving for aversion

Post by 2600htz »

form wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:27 am I apologise for phrasing my question so badly at the start.

Let me try again. For example, if a person was provoked by a feature of another person, he went on to verbally abused or even doing some physical harm to the person, after the act he felt gratified for some reason. Is this craving for pleasure or craving for aversion? Or, delight in doing evil?
Hi:

Its both, same coin different side.

Feeling (pleasant or unpleasant) leads to craving.
With pleasant feeling there is "like" craving. Wanting to keep that feeling going.
With unpleasant feeling there is "dislike" craving. Wanting to make that feeling go away.

A person provoked by the features of another, is dislike. Aversion. The person wanting to make that feeling go away does a bad deed like doing harm or verbal abuse.

If he later feels gratified, its because he liked doing harm. Opposite side. Even if it was caused by bad actions, still is a pleasant feeling.
That person will want to make that feeling keep going as long as he can.

Regards.
binocular
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Re: Craving for aversion

Post by binocular »

form wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:27 amLet me try again. For example, if a person was provoked by a feature of another person, he went on to verbally abused or even doing some physical harm to the person, after the act he felt gratified for some reason. Is this craving for pleasure or craving for aversion? Or, delight in doing evil?
It's not clear whether this can be substantiated with Buddhist doctrine. But it seems common enough in culture at large. Many people love to hate, enjoy to despise; they feel justified and vindicated when they hate.

In German, there is the word Schadenfreude, and it's been borrowed into English:
Schadenfreude (/ˈʃɑːdənfrɔɪdə/; German: [ˈʃaːdn̩ˌfʁɔʏ̯də] (About this soundlisten); lit. 'harm-joy') is the experience of pleasure, joy, or self-satisfaction that comes from learning of or witnessing the troubles, failures, or humiliation of another.

Schadenfreude is a complex emotion, where rather than feeling sympathy toward someone's misfortune, schadenfreude evokes joyful feelings that take pleasure from watching someone fail. This emotion is displayed more in children than adults. However, adults also experience schadenfreude, although generally they conceal it.[1]
Slavic languages go further and have words like the Slovene "škodoželjnost" which literally means 'wishing that another person would come to harm'.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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