Theravāda is

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

Theravāda is

The continuation and preserver of the Master's Dhamma.
11
69%
An idiosyncratic schismatic school.
5
31%
 
Total votes: 16

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Ceisiwr
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Theravāda is

Post by Ceisiwr »

Is Theravāda the bearer of the torch, or is it merely a schismatic sect?
These 17 sects are schismatic,
only one is non-schismatic.
With the non-schismatic sect,
there are eighteen in all.
Like a great banyan tree,
the Theravāda is supreme,
The Dispensation of the Conqueror,
complete, without lack or excess.
The other sects arose
like thorns on the tree.
— Dīpavaṃsa, 4.90–91
Saññāvirattassa na santi ganthā,
Paññāvimuttassa na santi mohā;
Saññañca diṭṭhiñca ye aggahesuṃ,
Te ghaṭṭayantā vicaranti loke”ti.


“For one detached from perception, there exist no ties,
for one by wisdom freed, no delusions are there,
but those who have grasped perceptions and views,
they wander the world stirring up strife."


Māgaṇḍiya Sutta
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DNS
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Re: Theravāda is

Post by DNS »

There is no "middle way" option? :tongue:

In my opinion, mostly has it right; but not 100%. There are probably some complete books and suttas, vinaya, abhidhamma passages that are later additions, not part of buddhavacana.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Theravāda is

Post by Coëmgenu »

I said option 2, but now I also wish there were an answer for "both." The way the answers are set up, Theravāda cannot be both a particular and a particular substantiation of a universal teaching that is sectarian. Other Śrāvaka schools, like the Sarvāstivāda et al. in direct "competition" with Theravāda and schools like it, may have doubted the ability of the Ābhidharmikas of the other sects to attain Arhatva, but the Mahāyāna has no problem with a diversity of Śrāvaka schools able to produce Arhats.
The thus come thus gone,
who has neither came nor went,
enthroned on men’s breath,

like the still turtle,
withdraws six appendages
and is clothed in light --

illuminating
the unilluminated
with three shining cures.
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cappuccino
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Re: Theravāda is

Post by cappuccino »

the Master's Dhamma
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retrofuturist
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Re: Theravāda is

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

It's a "preserver of the Master's Dhamma", with additional exegesis and eisegesis.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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cappuccino
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Re: Theravāda is

Post by cappuccino »

retrofuturist wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:41 pm It's a "preserver of the Master's Dhamma", with additional exegesis and eisegesis.
we can't determine


hence the right attitude is faith
skandha
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Re: Theravāda is

Post by skandha »

retrofuturist wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:41 pm Greetings,

It's a "preserver of the Master's Dhamma", with additional exegesis and eisegesis.

Metta,
Paul. :)
I agree.
Form is like a lump of foam, Feeling like a water bubble; Perception is like a mirage, Volitions like a plantain trunk, and consciousness like an illusion
- SN 22.95
SteRo
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Re: Theravāda is

Post by SteRo »

a buddhist tradition
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ
binocular
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Re: Theravāda is

Post by binocular »

Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:21 pmIs Theravāda the bearer of the torch, or is it merely a schismatic sect?
It's whatever you want it to be, depending on how much power you have.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
santa100
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Re: Theravāda is

Post by santa100 »

Ceisiwr wrote:Is Theravāda the bearer of the torch, or is it merely a schismatic sect?
Just imagine a scene similar to the world open martial arts championship, at one corner of the ring is Mara, the undisputed world heavyweight champion, and the opposite end are his many challengers from all different styles: Theravada, Mahayana, Tibetan, etc all claiming to be the bearer of the torch, the Mara vanquisher. Guess what, all the talks and speculations are meaningless the moment the challenger steps inside the ring. Whoever's able to keep his full set of teeth intact and walk out of that ring alive and on his own two feet would be declared the bearer of the torch.
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Re: Theravāda is

Post by binocular »

santa100 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:42 pmJust imagine a scene similar to the world open martial arts championship, at one corner of the ring is Mara, the undisputed world heavyweight champion, and the opposite end are his many challengers from all different styles: Theravada, Mahayana, Tibetan, etc all claiming to be the bearer of the torch, the Mara vanquisher. Guess what, all the talks and speculations are meaningless the moment the challenger steps inside the ring. Whoever's able to keep his full set of teeth intact and walk out of that ring alive and on his own two feet would be declared the bearer of the torch.
Now, the only question is who is who in this match.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
santa100
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Re: Theravāda is

Post by santa100 »

binocular wrote:Now, the only question is who is who in this match.
Nah, no undisputed world heavyweight champion, but he's still Sugar Ray Leonard, one of the best pound for pound super-middleweight champs of all time!
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Sam Vara
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Re: Theravāda is

Post by Sam Vara »

binocular wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:55 pm
santa100 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:42 pmJust imagine a scene similar to the world open martial arts championship, at one corner of the ring is Mara, the undisputed world heavyweight champion, and the opposite end are his many challengers from all different styles: Theravada, Mahayana, Tibetan, etc all claiming to be the bearer of the torch, the Mara vanquisher. Guess what, all the talks and speculations are meaningless the moment the challenger steps inside the ring. Whoever's able to keep his full set of teeth intact and walk out of that ring alive and on his own two feet would be declared the bearer of the torch.
Now, the only question is who is who in this match.
Dhp 103-5 may help decide:
Though one may conquer a thousand times a thousand men in battle, yet he indeed is the noblest victor who conquers himself.

Self-conquest is far better than the conquest of others. Not even a god, an angel, Mara or Brahma can turn into defeat the victory of a person who is self-subdued and ever restrained in conduct.
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Re: Theravāda is

Post by DNS »

santa100 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:42 pm
Ceisiwr wrote:Is Theravāda the bearer of the torch, or is it merely a schismatic sect?
Just imagine a scene similar to the world open martial arts championship, at one corner of the ring is Mara, the undisputed world heavyweight champion, and the opposite end are his many challengers from all different styles: Theravada, Mahayana, Tibetan, etc all claiming to be the bearer of the torch, the Mara vanquisher. Guess what, all the talks and speculations are meaningless the moment the challenger steps inside the ring. Whoever's able to keep his full set of teeth intact and walk out of that ring alive and on his own two feet would be declared the bearer of the torch.
True, by the majority of people, yes, they would be declared the winner; however, they could still be wrong.

Kissinger: "Mr. President, history will judge you well, that you were a good president."
Nixon: "That depends on who's writing history."
santa100
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Re: Theravāda is

Post by santa100 »

DNS wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:45 pm True, by the majority of people, yes, they would be declared the winner; however, they could still be wrong.

Kissinger: "Mr. President, history will judge you well, that you were a good president."
Nixon: "That depends on who's writing history."
That's why binocular's video is not quite a good analogy. It's more like the below which is very much to Sam Vara's point, for ultimately, no one except the 2 fighters inside the ring (Mara and yourself in this particular context) would know who the real champ is:
Last edited by santa100 on Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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