Fake news and The Dhamma....

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Citta Trust
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Fake news and The Dhamma....

Post by Citta Trust »

Ok, so I posted on here on a similar topic and it got picked due to someone hijacking it to talk about Mohammed, I would kindly as you not to do so here please.

This matter is close to my heart as I have suffered somewhat due to blaming conspiracy theories, governments etc... when infact we can use this as a chance to turn to The Dhamma.

Seeimg as I couldn't post this talk on my last topic due to it being locked, I'm opening this one as I feel it's a very important topic right now. We can easilly fall into depression when we see the world going crazy, but it's much wider to look at this as the defilements and delusion in action :)

Any comments on the talk or the subject matter? :)

Many thanks

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DooDoot
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Re: Fake news and The Dhamma....

Post by DooDoot »

I replied to your last topic. If you want to remain calm, you must educate yourself logically from reputable sources. Did you view the playlist list I kindly prepared for you?
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
SteRo
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Re: Fake news and The Dhamma....

Post by SteRo »

"Whereas some brahmans and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to talking about lowly topics such as these — talking about kings, robbers, ministers of state; armies, alarms, and battles; food and drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, and scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the countryside; women and heroes; the gossip of the street and the well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity [philosophical discussions of the past and future], the creation of the world and of the sea, and talk of whether things exist or not — he abstains from talking about lowly topics such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... tml#speech
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ It's definitely not science but science may provide guidelines nevertheless.
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DooDoot
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Re: Fake news and The Dhamma....

Post by DooDoot »

I listened to the video but I personally don't agree with the approach. Both the monk & his audience have taken a contentious non-impartial position. Dhamma is about law (niyama) thus the political matters in the video are about international law. Yet the monk appears to be preaching:

1. self-defense via the sword

2. metta

The Armenia-Azerbaijan-Nagorno-Karabakh conflict is a matter of international law. The past initiatives, per the Wiki narrators, are here, which includes UN Resolution 62/243. It appears most of the world have not supported the Armenian position. Nagorno-Karabakh is officially part of Azerbaijan despite having 80% or so (whatever) Armenian population & being self-governed by secessionist Armenians. It is similar to the German-Sudetenland matter in the 1930s & the German-Poland-Danzig matter that eventually ignited World War 2; where Germany sought to reunite the majority German people living in the recently formed northern Czechoslovakia and western & north Poland.

The monk appeared to blame Islam for the collapse of Buddhism in India and appears to be similarly calling Azerbaijan "Islamic aggressors"; despite the majority of nations in the UN never supporting the Armenian position & despite the fact Jewish Israel is also heavily supporting Azerbaijan (for its vested interests).

It appears, already, the monk is not impartial and the monk is misapplying Dhamma.

First, sila or morality must be applied. In the worldly sphere, sila includes following the international law of nations, unless those laws are inherently immoral. The majority of nations have made proposals to resolve this matter and, in my opinion, a monk should focus on this (rather than getting involved in tribal self-determination identity politics).

Note: my best friend is Armenian.

:smile:
Last edited by DooDoot on Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Citta Trust
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Re: Fake news and The Dhamma....

Post by Citta Trust »

SteRo wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:26 am
"Whereas some brahmans and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to talking about lowly topics such as these — talking about kings, robbers, ministers of state; armies, alarms, and battles; food and drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, and scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the countryside; women and heroes; the gossip of the street and the well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity [philosophical discussions of the past and future], the creation of the world and of the sea, and talk of whether things exist or not — he abstains from talking about lowly topics such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... tml#speech
Thankyou... this topic was not to discuss the conspiracies fake news, but to view them as the 3 defilements external to us.

My post and the reason for posting seems to have been misunderstood.

@ Doodot... I appreciate the links, I have watched some of the video but to be honest, I was talking about much more than covid... I am not always the best at conveying my point and this was the reason why I stopped posting on here so much in the past. This is another example of it. I'll likely stay clear of this from now on. Thankyou :)
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DooDoot
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Re: Fake news and The Dhamma....

Post by DooDoot »

Citta Trust wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:42 am @ Doodot... I appreciate the links, I have watched some of the video but to be honest, I was talking about much more than covid... I am not always the best at conveying my point and this was the reason why I stopped posting on here so much in the past. This is another example of it. I'll likely stay clear of this from now on. Thankyou :)
You are welcome. What I am attempting to explain is our view must be based in morality & knowledge. For example:

1. enough of the science does not support the Covid lockdowns, which appear immoral because many scientists say they cause great harm. Since we ourselves are not scientists we must base our view on scientists & what is least harmful

2. morality does not support a USA invasion of Iraq, Libya or Syria because the USA has not acted in self-defense and because the history of US intervention is one of great destructiveness & clear lies

3. morality does not support taking a side in the Armenian-Azer dispute because these parties have avoided countless international resolution attempts. i think a monk should call for abiding with international law & resolution

Therefore, we must ground ourself in what is moral before moving up to metta, not-self, defilements, etc
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
SteRo
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Re: Fake news and The Dhamma....

Post by SteRo »

Citta Trust wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:42 am
SteRo wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:26 am
"Whereas some brahmans and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to talking about lowly topics such as these — talking about kings, robbers, ministers of state; armies, alarms, and battles; food and drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, and scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the countryside; women and heroes; the gossip of the street and the well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity [philosophical discussions of the past and future], the creation of the world and of the sea, and talk of whether things exist or not — he abstains from talking about lowly topics such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... tml#speech
Thankyou... this topic was not to discuss the conspiracies fake news, but to view them as the 3 defilements external to us.
It's not been assumed that this topic was to discuss fake news but the quote was meant to show that the basis for the arising of fake news is non-virtuous wrong speech/idle chatter. So that's another aspect in the context of the title "Fake news and The Dhamma".
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ It's definitely not science but science may provide guidelines nevertheless.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Fake news and The Dhamma....

Post by confusedlayman »

SteRo wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:26 am
"Whereas some brahmans and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to talking about lowly topics such as these — talking about kings, robbers, ministers of state; armies, alarms, and battles; food and drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, and scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the countryside; women and heroes; the gossip of the street and the well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity [philosophical discussions of the past and future], the creation of the world and of the sea, and talk of whether things exist or not — he abstains from talking about lowly topics such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... tml#speech
talking about things exist or not is one of the heat topics in forum .. why buddha said its low talk?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
SteRo
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Re: Fake news and The Dhamma....

Post by SteRo »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:28 pm
SteRo wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:26 am
"Whereas some brahmans and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to talking about lowly topics such as these — talking about kings, robbers, ministers of state; armies, alarms, and battles; food and drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, and scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the countryside; women and heroes; the gossip of the street and the well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity [philosophical discussions of the past and future], the creation of the world and of the sea, and talk of whether things exist or not — he abstains from talking about lowly topics such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... tml#speech
talking about things exist or not is one of the heat topics in forum .. why buddha said its low talk?
"There are these ten topics of [proper] conversation. Which ten? Talk on modesty, on contentment, on seclusion, on non-entanglement, on arousing persistence, on virtue, on concentration, on discernment, on release, and on the knowledge & vision of release. These are the ten topics of conversation. If you were to engage repeatedly in these ten topics of conversation, you would outshine even the sun & moon, so mighty, so powerful — to say nothing of the wanderers of other sects."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ It's definitely not science but science may provide guidelines nevertheless.
Caodemarte
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Re: Fake news and The Dhamma....

Post by Caodemarte »

DooDoot wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:44 am
Citta Trust wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:42 am @ Doodot... I appreciate the links, I have watched some of the video but to be honest, I was talking about much more than covid... I am not always the best at conveying my point and this was the reason why I stopped posting on here so much in the past. This is another example of it. I'll likely stay clear of this from now on. Thankyou :)
You are welcome. What I am attempting to explain is our view must be based in morality & knowledge. For example:

1. enough of the science does not support the Covid lockdowns, which appear immoral because many scientists say they cause great harm. Since we ourselves are not scientists we must base our view on scientists & what is least harmful

2. morality does not support a USA invasion of Iraq, Libya or Syria because the USA has not acted in self-defense and because the history of US intervention is one of great destructiveness & clear lies

3. morality does not support taking a side in the Armenian-Azer dispute because these parties have avoided countless international resolution attempts. i think a monk should call for abiding with international law & resolution

Therefore, we must ground ourself in what is moral before moving up to metta, not-self, defilements, etc
Propagandistic political claims and a false scientific one are examples of wrong speech.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Fake news and The Dhamma....

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

:rules:

Please ensure that responses address the OP's question and don't veer off into exploring fake news itself.

If you want to talk about Fake News in more general terms, please do so at DWE.

:thanks:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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