Attainment of no thought

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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confusedlayman
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Attainment of no thought

Post by confusedlayman »

Why no thought state is not discussed in sutta? Is it same as samadhi of non attention to signs? Is it same as cessastion of perception and feelimg ?

If ybere is no thought no mental expereiemce so no suffering but its not given in sutta? Whats the drawback?

Non clinging leads to cessation of thoughts?
dont think
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Sam Vara
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Re: Attainment of no thought

Post by Sam Vara »

confusedlayman wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:03 pm Why no thought state is not discussed in sutta? Is it same as samadhi of non attention to signs? Is it same as cessastion of perception and feelimg ?

If ybere is no thought no mental expereiemce so no suffering but its not given in sutta? Whats the drawback?

Non clinging leads to cessation of thoughts?
It might be the second jhāna, in which vitakka and vicāra fall away.

Like so many similar questions this will probably be a matter of definitions, but I would have thought (!) that one could have mental experience - feeling, for example - without directed attention and evaluation.
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DooDoot
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Re: Attainment of no thought

Post by DooDoot »

the goal of buddhism is to have wisdom rather than be like a rock
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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SarathW
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Re: Attainment of no thought

Post by SarathW »

confusedlayman wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:03 pm Why no thought state is not discussed in sutta? Is it same as samadhi of non attention to signs? Is it same as cessastion of perception and feelimg ?

If ybere is no thought no mental expereiemce so no suffering but its not given in sutta? Whats the drawback?

Non clinging leads to cessation of thoughts?
What do you mean by "no thoughts"?
If it is without Vitakka and Vicara then the second Jhana.
If it is no perception and feeling then it is Cessation of Perception and Feeling.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Attainment of no thought

Post by Mahabrahma »

Rocks can have great Wisdom too.

Image
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DooDoot
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Re: Attainment of no thought

Post by DooDoot »

Mahabrahma wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:46 pm Rocks can have great Wisdom too.
No. The rock has no wisdom.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Dark Matter
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Re: Attainment of no thought

Post by Dark Matter »

4.4. The Awakening Factors
"Furthermore, a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of principles with respect to the seven awakening factors. And how does a mendicant meditate observing an aspect of principles with respect to the seven awakening factors?

It’s when a mendicant who has the awakening factor of mindfulness in them understands: ‘I have the awakening factor of mindfulness in me.’ When they don’t have the awakening factor of mindfulness in them, they understand: ‘I don’t have the awakening factor of mindfulness in me.’ They understand how the awakening factor of mindfulness that has not arisen comes to arise; and how the awakening factor of mindfulness that has arisen becomes fulfilled by development.

When they have the awakening factor of investigation of principles … energy … rapture … tranquility … immersion … equanimity in them, they understand: ‘I have the awakening factor of equanimity in me.’ When they don’t have the awakening factor of equanimity in them, they understand: ‘I don’t have the awakening factor of equanimity in me.’ They understand how the awakening factor of equanimity that has not arisen comes to arise; and how the awakening factor of equanimity that has arisen becomes fulfilled by development.

And so they meditate observing an aspect of principles internally, externally, and both internally and externally. They meditate observing the principles as liable to originate, as liable to vanish, and as liable to both originate and vanish. Or mindfulness is established that principles exist, to the extent necessary for knowledge and mindfulness. They meditate independent, not grasping at anything in the world"

Equanimity is perhaps the best description for no thought? :namaste:
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Attainment of no thought

Post by Mahabrahma »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:47 pm
Mahabrahma wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:46 pm Rocks can have great Wisdom too.
No. The rock has no wisdom.
Can a book have Wisdom? If so, how?
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DooDoot
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Re: Attainment of no thought

Post by DooDoot »

Mahabrahma wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:53 pm Can a book have Wisdom? If so, how?
A book has no wisdom. The wisdom is in the mind of the reader of the book. :smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Mahabrahma
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Re: Attainment of no thought

Post by Mahabrahma »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:58 pm
Mahabrahma wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:53 pm Can a book have Wisdom? If so, how?
A book has no wisdom. The wisdom is in the mind of the reader of the book. :smile:
So you're saying the Suttas don't contain Wisdom? Are you sure?
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DooDoot
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Re: Attainment of no thought

Post by DooDoot »

Mahabrahma wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:14 pm So you're saying the Suttas don't contain Wisdom? Are you sure?
Yes. The suttas are mere paper or electronic blobs.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Attainment of no thought

Post by Mahabrahma »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:17 pm
Mahabrahma wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:14 pm So you're saying the Suttas don't contain Wisdom? Are you sure?
Yes. The suttas are mere paper or electronic blobs.
I'm pretty sure the Buddha's Wisdom is in there somewhere...

You seem to be benefiting greatly. :buddha1:
form
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Re: Attainment of no thought

Post by form »

No thoughts means no volition.
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Re: Attainment of no thought

Post by Buckwheat »

Mahabrahma wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:20 pm
DooDoot wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:17 pm
Mahabrahma wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:14 pm So you're saying the Suttas don't contain Wisdom? Are you sure?
Yes. The suttas are mere paper or electronic blobs.
I'm pretty sure the Buddha's Wisdom is in there somewhere...

You seem to be benefiting greatly. :buddha1:
Books are not wise, but they may contain collections of words that provide a map to wisdom. The author may have wisdom. The reader may have wisdom. The book is a tool to transfer that wisdom.

A hammer does not construct a house, even if having a hammer is indispensable to constructing a house.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
SteRo
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Re: Attainment of no thought

Post by SteRo »

confusedlayman wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:03 pm Why no thought state is not discussed in sutta? Is it same as samadhi of non attention to signs? Is it same as cessastion of perception and feelimg ?

If ybere is no thought no mental expereiemce so no suffering but its not given in sutta? Whats the drawback?

Non clinging leads to cessation of thoughts?
Sutta mentions dispassion towards aggregates which covers the arising of thought. If there is dispassion no distracting or disturbing thought will arise.
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ
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