What is the practical use of the concept of a citta?

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DooDoot
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Re: What is the practical use of the concept of a citta?

Post by DooDoot »

santa100 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:14 pm I repeat my question:
Non-sequitur
santa100 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:14 pm3. Do you admit that you have only provided definition to CetoVimutti, NOT Citta? Yes[ ] No[ ]
Irrelevant. The topic is: "What is the practical use of the concept of a citta? Other than in contemplation of mind in foundation of mindfulness?"

My answer is: "Liberation of mind" is another practical use other than "contemplation of mind".

:hello: :focus:
santa100 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:39 pm sorta like what Neo sees after he's been "awaken":
Hi Santa100

Your ideas from Hollywood appear to be about vinnana rather than citta. :redherring:

Also, mindfulness does not "see". Mindfulness recollects or remembers. :mrgreen:

:woohoo: :rofl: :pig:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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santa100
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Re: What is the practical use of the concept of a citta?

Post by santa100 »

DooDoot wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:17 pm
santa100 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:14 pm I repeat my question:
Non-sequitur
santa100 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:14 pm3. Do you admit that you have only provided definition to CetoVimutti, NOT Citta? Yes[ ] No[ ]
Irrelevant. The topic is: "What is the practical use of the concept of a citta? Other than in contemplation of mind in foundation of mindfulness?"

My answer is: "Liberation of mind" is another practical use other than "contemplation of mind".

:hello: :focus:
Not a bad answer. Had you said right from the get-go this brand new statement of yours:
My answer is: "Liberation of mind" is another practical use other than "contemplation of mind".
instead of keep mixing up citta and cetovimutti, then I wouldn't have any problem with that.
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DooDoot
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Re: What is the practical use of the concept of a citta?

Post by DooDoot »

santa100 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:22 pm Not a bad answer.
:bow: Thank u for your kindness. :bow:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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santa100
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Re: What is the practical use of the concept of a citta?

Post by santa100 »

DooDoot wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:22 pm
santa100 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:22 pm Not a bad answer.
:bow: Thank u for your kindness. :bow:
:namaste:
form
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Re: What is the practical use of the concept of a citta?

Post by form »

Citta = mind?

One citta is make up of an object, feeling, perception and consciousness?

It is not possible to capture a citta?

Or is a series of citta define by a state of mind?
SteRo
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Re: What is the practical use of the concept of a citta?

Post by SteRo »

form wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:29 am Other than in contemplation of mind in foundation of mindfulness?
Generally the practical use of concepts is practical communication. How would you want to teach mindfulness without using concepts?
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ
SteRo
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Re: What is the practical use of the concept of a citta?

Post by SteRo »

form wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:08 am Citta = mind?

One citta is make up of an object, feeling, perception and consciousness?

It is not possible to capture a citta?

Or is a series of citta define by a state of mind?
One of these posts with question marks only. I understand that a poster who posts this way only expresses doubt and non-understanding and therefore in such cases I usually suggest to find a teacher.
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ
form
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Re: What is the practical use of the concept of a citta?

Post by form »

santa100 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:39 pm
form wrote:Other than in contemplation of mind in foundation of mindfulness?
It's like a close-in dissection view of things under a microscope. Advanced meditators' concentration and minfulness strength is so powerful and refined that they can see clearly the arising/disappearance of phenomena per mind-moment, hence the concept of the citta, sorta like what Neo sees after he's been "awaken":
So an advanced meditator can see aggregates forming and dissolving? As in one citta follow by another?
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Re: What is the practical use of the concept of a citta?

Post by SteRo »

form wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:28 am So an advanced meditator can see aggregates forming and dissolving? As in one citta follow by another?
Certainly not. Because an observer is already the aggregates having been formed. So the question is: can the aggregates observe themselves and if yes, what can they observe?
The aggregates can observe change of own status.
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ
santa100
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Re: What is the practical use of the concept of a citta?

Post by santa100 »

form wrote:So an advanced meditator can see aggregates forming and dissolving? As in one citta follow by another?
Yes, there're many threads on DW that thoroughly discussed those various minute/instantaneous mind-moments/cittaKkhana. The typical 17 moments are explained in great details in the CMOA. These aren't wild ideas made up by some monks, but must had been thoroughly and rigorously investigated/contemplated by advanced practitioners. Very briefly:
The 17 mind moments/cittaKkhana =
1. visible object mind-moment
2. & 3. life-continuum vibrations
4. adverting citta
5. eye citta
6. receiving citta
7. investigating citta
8. determining citta
9.-15. 7 javanas mind-moments
16.17. 2 registration resultants; 18. back to the life-continuum;
form
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Re: What is the practical use of the concept of a citta?

Post by form »

santa100 wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:47 am
form wrote:So an advanced meditator can see aggregates forming and dissolving? As in one citta follow by another?
Yes, there're many threads on DW that thoroughly discussed those various minute/instantaneous mind-moments/cittaKkhana. The typical 17 moments are explained in great details in the CMOA. These aren't wild ideas made up by some monks, but must had been thoroughly and rigorously investigated/contemplated by advanced practitioners. Very briefly:
The 17 mind moments/cittaKkhana =
1. visible object mind-moment
2. & 3. life-continuum vibrations
4. adverting citta
5. eye citta
6. receiving citta
7. investigating citta
8. determining citta
9.-15. 7 javanas mind-moments
16.17. 2 registration resultants; 18. back to the life-continuum;
I think u have explained what I need to understand.
SarathW
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Re: What is the practical use of the concept of a citta?

Post by SarathW »

Further reading on Citta.
he Cittas
Awareness is the process of cittas experiencing objects. For a citta to arise it must have an object (aaramma.na). The object may be a color, sound, smell, taste, something tangible, or a mental object. These are the six external objects. Strictly speaking a mental object can be an internal phenomenon, such as a feeling, a thought, or an idea, but as forming the objective sphere of experience they are all classed as external. Corresponding to these external objects there are six internal sense faculties, called "doors" since they are the portals through which the objects enter the field of cognition. These are the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and mind. Each of the five physical sense faculties can receive only its appropriate object; the mind door, however, can receive both its own proper mental objects as well as the objects of the five physical senses. When a door receives its object, there arises a corresponding state of consciousness, such as eye-consciousness, ear-consciousness, etc. The union of the object, the door or sense faculty, and the consciousness is called "contact" (phassa). There can be no awareness without contact. For contact to occur all three components must be present — object, door, and consciousness. If one is missing there will be no contact. The process of the arising of consciousness and the subsequent train of events is analyzed in detail in the Abhidhamma. A study of this analysis will show that only "bare phenomena" are taking place and that there is no "self" involved in this process. This is the no-self characteristic of existence.

The Arising of the Cittas
Cittas are classified in various ways. One such classification is according to their nature (jaati). In this classification we have:

Cittas which are resultant states of consciousness, vipaaka, the effects of previous kamma.
Cittas which are causes for action (kamma) through body, speech, or mind. We may call these "causative cittas." A wholesome citta (kusala citta) will issue in wholesome action and an unwholesome one (akusala citta) in unwholesome action.
Cittas which are neither kamma nor its result. These are called kiriya cittas. They are kammically ineffective, being merely functional. Some kiriya cittas perform simple functions in the process of consciousness, others represent the actions and thoughts of arahants, who no longer generate fresh kamma.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el322.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
pegembara
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Re: What is the practical use of the concept of a citta?

Post by pegembara »

It is "something" that can be developed and liberated or freed.
“Luminous, monks, is the mind[citta].1 And it is defiled by incoming defilements.”

“Luminous, monks, is the mind[citta]. And it is freed from incoming defilements.”

“Luminous, monks, is the mind[citta]. And it is defiled by incoming defilements. The uninstructed run-of-the-mill person doesn’t discern that as it has come to be, which is why I tell you that—for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person—there is no development of the mind[citta].”

“Luminous, monks, is the mind[citta]. And it is freed from incoming defilements. The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns that as it has come to be, which is why I tell you that—for the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones—there is development of the mind[citta].”

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/AN/AN1_50.html
It is "that" which sees consciousness[vinnana-sights, sounds, smells, taste, touch, thoughts, perceptions and emotions] as impermanent and not-self.
"Is consciousness permanent or impermanent?" — "Impermanent, venerable sir." — "Now is what is impermanent pleasant or painful?" — "Painful, venerable sir." — "Now is what is impermanent, what is painful since subject to change, fit to be regarded thus: 'This is mine, this is I, this is my self'"? — "No, venerable sir."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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