How exactly was Angulimala redeemed?

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No_Mind
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How exactly was Angulimala redeemed?

Post by No_Mind »

In a nutshell he was a bandit responsible for the death of innocents.
But he turned to the Dhamma and was let go with a beating.
Wikipedia states -
"he is seen as the example par excellence of the redemptive power of the Buddha's teaching and the Buddha's skill as a teacher."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%E1%B9%85gulim%C4%81la
But what did he do, what steps did he actually take to be absolved of his unskillful acts.
Does simply following 8FP absolve us, redeem us? We don't have access to the Buddha. Just a very confusing version of his teachings.
Any thoughts?
No competition or proselytising ..
In Hinduism one has to simply utter "Narayana, Narayana, Narayana" from the heart (filled with chastised emotions) to be forgiven.
In Christianity to accept Jesus as the Son of God (and equal faith in Holy Trinity depending on the denomination).
What are the steps to redemption in Buddhism? Tough ask .. but I sort of specialise in that department.

:namaste:
Last edited by No_Mind on Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
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confusedlayman
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Re: How exactly was Angulimala redeemed?

Post by confusedlayman »

He attained arhant by meditation amd hence avpided hell and rebirth
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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No_Mind
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Re: How exactly was Angulimala redeemed?

Post by No_Mind »

confusedlayman wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:28 pm He attained arhant by meditation amd hence avpided hell and rebirth
Read carefully. I certainly know he became an arahant!

"But what did he do, what steps did he actually take to be absolved of his unskillful acts.
Does simply following 8FP absolve us, redeem us? We don't have access to the Buddha. Just a very confusing version of his teachings."

:namaste:
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
SarathW
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Re: How exactly was Angulimala redeemed?

Post by SarathW »

No_Mind wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:57 pm In a nutshell he was a bandit responsible for the death of innocents.
But he turned to the Dhamma and was let go with a beating.
Wikipedia states -
"he is seen as the example par excellence of the redemptive power of the Buddha's teaching and the Buddha's skill as a teacher."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%E1%B9%85gulim%C4%81la
But what did he do, what steps did he actually take to be absolved of his unskillful acts.
Does simply following 8FP absolve us, redeem us? We don't have access to the Buddha. Just a very confusing version of his teachings.
Any thoughts?
No competition or proselytising ..
In Hinduism one only has to utter "Narayana, Narayana, Narayana" from the heart (filled with chastised emotions) to be forgiven
In Christianity to accept Jesus as the Son of God (and faith in Holy Trinity depending on the denomination)
What are the steps to redemption in Buddhism? Tough ask but I sort of specialise in that department.

:namaste:
It is like taking a lesson from Einstine about E=mc2
Buddha is a charismatic teacher. Even nowadays you find average monks (teachers) turn drug addicts to be good monks.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
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Re: How exactly was Angulimala redeemed?

Post by SarathW »

No_Mind wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:33 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:28 pm He attained arhant by meditation amd hence avpided hell and rebirth
Read carefully. I certainly know he became an arahant!

"But what did he do, what steps did he actually take to be absolved of his unskillful acts.
Does simply following 8FP absolve us, redeem us? We don't have access to the Buddha. Just a very confusing version of his teachings."

:namaste:
No.
You have to apply Noble Tenfold Path which includes two additional limbs, the right knowledge, and the right release.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Mr Man
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Re: How exactly was Angulimala redeemed?

Post by Mr Man »

I don’t believe redemption is a Buddhist concept. There is no need for absolution.
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confusedlayman
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Re: How exactly was Angulimala redeemed?

Post by confusedlayman »

He did attain ariya stage so no lower realma due to karma of born only in human and deva world but he attained arhant so no rebirth.. all karma ineffective

The point is karma can be lessened to any extent unless 5 henious crime made... for example if someome kill many people but become arhant he needs to endure only attack by angry mobs instead of hell rebirth but we cant calculate
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Nicolas
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Re: How exactly was Angulimala redeemed?

Post by Nicolas »

No_Mind, what do you mean by “redemption”?

Redemption in the eyes of others? Or redemption in the sense of not suffering negative consequences?
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Bundokji
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Re: How exactly was Angulimala redeemed?

Post by Bundokji »

Mr Man wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:45 pm I don’t believe redemption is a Buddhist concept. There is no need for absolution.
This what came to my mind when i read the OP question.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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No_Mind
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Re: How exactly was Angulimala redeemed?

Post by No_Mind »

Nicolas wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:51 pm No_Mind, what do you mean by “redemption”?

Redemption in the eyes of others? Or redemption in the sense of not suffering negative consequences?
Latter of course. To be free of sin/unskillful acts in eyes of the Divine and/or Kammic ledger,

:namaste:
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
befriend
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Re: How exactly was Angulimala redeemed?

Post by befriend »

Buddha told angulimala to help deliver a baby so he did this was the first thing that started to brighten his mind.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
befriend
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Re: How exactly was Angulimala redeemed?

Post by befriend »

Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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Wizard in the Forest
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Re: How exactly was Angulimala redeemed?

Post by Wizard in the Forest »

Following the Fourfold Purification

Upholding Moral Precepts: The Abandonment of the 40 Bad Deeds


Guarding the Six Sense Doors: Sense Restraint

Proper Livelihood: Using, Enduring, Avoiding, Discarding, Developing

Proper Use of Requisites: Aspiration and Reflection

Also the other mentions
The Salt Crystal Sutta

The Conch Horn Sutta

Born of Deeds

Enjoy!
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Re: How exactly was Angulimala redeemed?

Post by DooDoot »

The mind realised anatta; that there was no self that did those former evil deeds. The doer of those former evil deeds was merely the element of ignorance. Refer to SN 12.17.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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sunnat
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Post by sunnat »

Mixing up sin and kamma is another can of worms.

There is no kammic ledger.

The path is to stop performing unskilful acts. As a consequence when the fruit of past kamma, kamma resultants, sankharas, arise one lets them fall on barren ground meaning one does not nourish them by re-acting (repeating the past kamma) and so they pass away forever.

Also perform skilful acts and so on purifying the mind.

Do this, and thus the earnest meditator finds out through direct experience what Angulimala did.
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