Kalāpa in the Four Nikāyas

[DooDoot]

I read "one perception" as a focus on the unification of mind (cittekaggatā) aspect present in all jhanas.

Thank you. Unification of mind (cittekaggatā) does not appear to mean one perception. Regards

[Ceisiwr]

This goes against other suttas where Jhana is clearly absorption into 1 perception.

The above is total nonsense. Where do the suttas say the above? Prove it. Thanks

Diversity of perception being a hindrance to Jhana.

[DooDoot]

Diversity of perception being a hindrance to Jhana.

going totally beyond perceptions of form, with the ending of perceptions of impingement, not focusing on perceptions of diversity, aware that ‘space is infinite’, they enter and remain in the dimension of infinite space …

[Ceisiwr]

Diversity of perception being a hindrance to Jhana.

going totally beyond perceptions of form, with the ending of perceptions of impingement, not focusing on perceptions of diversity, aware that ‘space is infinite’, they enter and remain in the dimension of infinite space …

Before even entering the 1st Jhana diversity of perceptions are a hindrance. When leaning the 4th Jhana diversify of perceptions return, and then there is entry into the formless.

You haven’t experience Jhana.

You have not entered the stream.

[DooDoot]

Before even entering the 1st Jhana diversity of perceptions are a hindrance. When leaving the 4th Jhana diversify of perceptions return, and then there is entry into the formless.

sutta reference? thanks

it was already said the 1st jhana has five factors therefore there must be at least five perceptions in the 1st jhana

[skandha]

Jhana is quite clearly absorption into one perception, where the whole mental body is filled with bliss.

Appears more than one perception. Refer to MN 111.

I read "one perception" as a focus on the unification of mind (cittekaggatā) aspect present in all jhanas.

Further to my comment above. I also want to highlight the context of the exchange between me and Ceisiwr was that of the various jhana imagery in the suttas of drenching the body with bliss e.g. AN 5.28 . The various imagery is such that it emphasises the whole body being covered by soap, water, cloth. This wholeness and unity I would say is the unification of mind.

[Ceisiwr]

Before even entering the 1st Jhana diversity of perceptions are a hindrance. When leaving the 4th Jhana diversify of perceptions return, and then there is entry into the formless.

sutta reference? thanks

it was already said the 1st jhana has five factors therefore there must be at least five perceptions in the 1st jhana

While meditating … ‘Perceptions of diversity arose in me … I’ll make sure that neither doubt nor loss of focus nor dullness and drowsiness nor terror nor excitement nor discomfort nor excessive energy nor overly lax energy nor longing nor perception of diversity will arise in me again.’

When I understood that doubt, loss of focus, dullness and drowsiness, terror, excitement, discomfort, excessive energy, overly lax energy, longing, perception of diversity, and excessive concentration on forms are corruptions of the mind, I gave them up.

I thought: ‘I’ve given up my mental corruptions. Now let me develop immersion in three ways.’ I developed immersion while placing the mind and keeping it connected; without placing the mind, but just keeping it connected; without placing the mind or keeping it connected; with rapture; without rapture; with pleasure; with equanimity.

MN 128

[DooDoot]

MN 128

Irrelevant. MN 128 is not about jhana but about emerging psychic powers

[Ceisiwr]

MN 128

Irrelevant. MN 128 is not about jhana but about emerging psychic powers

No. It’s about the hindrances that were in play before being able to enter the Jhanas and as your DN reference states, you need 1 perception for the 1st Jhana (I would argue for all).

[DooDoot]

No. It’s about the hindrances that were in play before being able to enter the Jhanas and as your AN reference states, you need 1 perception for the 1st Jhana (I would argue for all).

no & no

[Ceisiwr]

No. It’s about the hindrances that were in play before being able to enter the Jhanas and as your DN reference states, you need 1 perception for the 1st Jhana (I would argue for all).

no

Solid rebuttal

[DooDoot]

Solid rebuttal

MN 128 is about psychic powers and diversity of perceptions exists in that context

[Ceisiwr]

Solid rebuttal

MN 128 is about psychic powers

No. It’s about developing the Jhanas and even without it your OWN sutta reference argues against your position

[DooDoot]

It’s about developing the Jhanas and even without it your OWN sutta reference argues against your position

no its not

also, the AN sutta i quoted is relative, namely, referring to diversity of sensory perceptions, per AN 6.63

"And what is the diversity in perception? Perception with regard to forms is one thing, perception with regard to sounds is another, perception with regard to aromas is another, perception with regard to flavors is another, perception with regard to tactile sensations is another, perception with regard to ideas is another. This is called the diversity in perception.

the above diversity of perception is alien to jhana but not the diversity of perceptions in jhana

in short, jhana does not have only one perception. such an idea is utter nonsense

[DooDoot]

No. It’s about developing the Jhanas

jhana is not even mentioned in MN 128

MN 128 is about:

Well, sir, while meditating diligent, keen, and resolute, we perceive both light and vision of forms. But before long the light and the vision of forms vanish. We haven’t worked out the reason for that.”

MN 128 says:

But as you live diligently like this, have you achieved any superhuman distinction in knowledge and vision worthy of the noble ones, a meditation at ease?”

Atthi pana vo, anuruddhā, evaṃ appamattānaṃ ātāpīnaṃ pahitattānaṃ viharataṃ uttari manussadhammā alamariyañāṇadassanaviseso adhigato phāsuvihāro”ti?

“Well, sir, while meditating diligent, keen, and resolute, we perceive both light and vision of forms.

“Idha mayaṃ, bhante, appamattā ātāpino pahitattā viharantā obhāsañceva sañjānāma dassanañca rūpānaṃ.

Its obviously not about ordinary hindrances

if your ideas were copied from Analayo German Monk, they are best abandoned

Anuruddha is the subject of MN 128 and Anuruddha was later reputed for his psychic powers