Layman monastic life

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befriend
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Layman monastic life

Post by befriend »

It seems to be a common consensus that being a layman and living like a monastic is not beneficial. I am curious why this is is it because you won't have anything to talk about to your friends and also because their is not as much social supports for a hermetical layman as their is for a monastic. I can see how monastic interdependence could and living with abbots and kalyanamittas would be conducive for awakening. And living alone as a layman might be different but I'm not sure that would be cool if there were more Anagarika 8 precept people living In the world.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
form
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Re: Layman monastic life

Post by form »

befriend wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:05 am It seems to be a common consensus that being a layman and living like a monastic is not beneficial. I am curious why this is is it because you won't have anything to talk about to your friends and also because their is not as much social supports for a hermetical layman as their is for a monastic. I can see how monastic interdependence could and living with abbots and kalyanamittas would be conducive for awakening. And living alone as a layman might be different but I'm not sure that would be cool if there were more Anagarika 8 precept people living In the world.
I think the attachment to a home, I.e. house, its surrounding, family i.e household life are very strong attachment. The distinction between house holder and a going into homeless seems to be a very big step. I have seen Bhikkhu Bodhi using the word, abode, to distinct between the level of attachment as opposed to the word, home, as explained in the notes of one part of his translation.

In modern days, there are probably advantages and disadvantages to choose which way, as most monasteries have their short comings and being very strict on rules of going homelessness may not be endure for any lengthy time for many. The basic necessities may be quite lacking. Being away from all the laymen enjoyment may be too fast and too extreme changes.
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Layman monastic life

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

befriend wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:05 am It seems to be a common consensus that being a layman and living like a monastic is not beneficial ...

It's not a common consensus, imo.



Some venerable said like:
  • "Robe the mind first, rather than the body."


I like that.


:heart:
.


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Self ...
  • "an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" :D ~ MN22
sunnat
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Post by sunnat »

the strongest attachment, most difficult to let go of, is self. A monk has renounced every material thing and the life of a monk is most conducive to letting go of self, to fully realise through direct experience, anatta. A layperson who manages to realise that must in short order ordain or die. The first five Arhats, after Buddha, attained streamentry and ordained. The Blessed One then delivered the Anattalakkhana Sutta and they all became Arhats.
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confusedlayman
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Post by confusedlayman »

sunnat wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:58 am the strongest attachment, most difficult to let go of, is self. A monk has renounced every material thing and the life of a monk is most conducive to letting go of self, to fully realise through direct experience, anatta. A layperson who manages to realise that must in short order ordain or die. The first five Arhats, after Buddha, attained streamentry and ordained. The Blessed One then delivered the Anattalakkhana Sutta and they all became Arhats.
I also understand anattalakkhana sutta, when followed the instruction, there is equanimity to all happenings and there is non clinging too but my mind soon starts to follow signs and take up another birth... I think for monks its permanent attainment but for lay we can only try for few minutes or seconds before we fall back
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
justindesilva
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Re: Re:

Post by justindesilva »

confusedlayman wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:31 am
sunnat wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:58 am the strongest attachment, most difficult to let go of, is self. A monk has renounced every material thing and the life of a monk is most conducive to letting go of self, to fully realise through direct experience, anatta. A layperson who manages to realise that must in short order ordain or die. The first five Arhats, after Buddha, attained streamentry and ordained. The Blessed One then delivered the Anattalakkhana Sutta and they all became Arhats.
I also understand anattalakkhana sutta, when followed the instruction, there is equanimity to all happenings and there is non clinging too but my mind soon starts to follow signs and take up another birth... I think for monks its permanent attainment but for lay we can only try for few minutes or seconds before we fall back
Anatta lakkana of course in a modern sense explain that beings are an autonomous process being part of the universe, taking Rupa, vedana, sangna, sankara, vingnana as components of the process. Hence an identity of self does not exist. Yet Culavedella Sutta drags this explanation to a point to question whether form is self, whether vedana or feeling is self, whether sangna or signals is self, whether sankara or fabrications is self and whether vingnana or awareness or citta is self. By identifying that none of these is self an identity of a sakkaya ( soul or myself or I ) could be lost.
It once again proves that as we beings are a process an identity of myself cannot be reached with Rupa, vedana, sangna or sankara and vingnana.
I believe that cula vedella Sutta is a Sutta which furthers Anattalakkhana Sutta.
coconut
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Re: Layman monastic life

Post by coconut »

befriend wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:05 am It seems to be a common consensus that being a layman and living like a monastic is not beneficial. I am curious why this is is it because you won't have anything to talk about to your friends and also because their is not as much social supports for a hermetical layman as their is for a monastic. I can see how monastic interdependence could and living with abbots and kalyanamittas would be conducive for awakening. And living alone as a layman might be different but I'm not sure that would be cool if there were more Anagarika 8 precept people living In the world.
Imho, this is a non-issue for 99.999% of lay people. Becoming monastic or ascetic is only important if you're a once-returner trying to attain non-return.

Until then there is plenty of work to do 24/7.

That issue will arise and be solved on its own if one is practicing rightly.
Inedible
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Re: Layman monastic life

Post by Inedible »

You know what works best for you. Also, don't believe everything you think or feel even if it seems convincing. An impulse is just an impulse and if you wait long enough it will go away. Your deeper wisdom is slower in coming and it tends to speak very quietly.
2600htz
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Re: Layman monastic life

Post by 2600htz »

Hi:

Like the Buddha said, "it is not easy as a lay person to live the holy life, like a polished shell".

Personally i think its painful, unless you have very good conditions.

Because ok, you probably can stop listening to music, but your neighbor speakers are super loud.
You stop having sex, and a girl texts you.
You adopt one meal a day, but a family member wants you to eat dinner with them.

It doesnt mean you will not learn from that experience, but there is a reason for monkhood.

Regards.
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one_awakening
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Re: Layman monastic life

Post by one_awakening »

The simple fact that there's more things in lay life that can pull you away from the practice, but if you're dedicated you can still make great strides that can make a significant impact on your life.
“You only lose what you cling to”
SarathW
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Re: Layman monastic life

Post by SarathW »

befriend wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:05 am It seems to be a common consensus that being a layman and living like a monastic is not beneficial. I am curious why this is is it because you won't have anything to talk about to your friends and also because their is not as much social supports for a hermetical layman as their is for a monastic. I can see how monastic interdependence could and living with abbots and kalyanamittas would be conducive for awakening. And living alone as a layman might be different but I'm not sure that would be cool if there were more Anagarika 8 precept people living In the world.
Monk is a ten preceptor and follow 227 rules.
The highest observed by lay person is the eight precepts (tenth precept -monks are not allowed to use money)
So it is not possible for a lay person to live without using money.
However you can live as an Anagarika in a temple.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
justindesilva
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Re: Layman monastic life

Post by justindesilva »

SarathW wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:14 am
befriend wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:05 am It seems to be a common consensus that being a layman and living like a monastic is not beneficial. I am curious why this is is it because you won't have anything to talk about to your friends and also because their is not as much social supports for a hermetical layman as their is for a monastic. I can see how monastic interdependence could and living with abbots and kalyanamittas would be conducive for awakening. And living alone as a layman might be different but I'm not sure that would be cool if there were more Anagarika 8 precept people living In the world.
Monk is a ten preceptor and follow 227 rules.
The highest observed by lay person is the eight precepts (tenth precept -monks are not allowed to use money)
So it is not possible for a lay person to live without using money.
However you can live as an Anagarika in a temple.
Is not anagarika a ten preceptor too, but not taking up bikku vinaya. Further with Anagarika Dharmapala, later there had been other Anagarikas too.
Next to Arya ashtanga marga preceptors next a lay upasaka can take up is Anagarika. He need not be a resident of a temple to my understanding.
Alino
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Re: Layman monastic life

Post by Alino »

Working with abandonment of sensual domain is always beneficial, even for lays.

It's more difficult to "do" things rather "not to do". So if there is possibility to keep 8 precepts for extended period of time - do it. Ona day in one life one have to do it anyway...
After that period it will be more difficult to entertain sensuality rather to abandon it. So there is hight probability that after some time this person will return to 8 precepts again... or some light version of them.

What is important for the lay-8 precept, for keeping it long enought, is kalianamitta's support. Until it will complitely integrate your personality and 8 precepts will be the almost natural mode of being.

Sensuality is a drug, less you do, less you want it... It's not always easy, because sankharas are anatta, but more we let it be, without following, rejecting of ignoring - more we strenghten our mind.

Ajahn Nianomoli on YouTube is very inspiring on the topic of abandonment of sensuality.
As he said, 5 precepts it's a bare minimum for not falling to the animal state, but for developing Dhamma 8 precepts are not negotiable...
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
chownah
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Re: Layman monastic life

Post by chownah »

SarathW wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:14 am
befriend wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:05 am It seems to be a common consensus that being a layman and living like a monastic is not beneficial. I am curious why this is is it because you won't have anything to talk about to your friends and also because their is not as much social supports for a hermetical layman as their is for a monastic. I can see how monastic interdependence could and living with abbots and kalyanamittas would be conducive for awakening. And living alone as a layman might be different but I'm not sure that would be cool if there were more Anagarika 8 precept people living In the world.
Monk is a ten preceptor and follow 227 rules.
The highest observed by lay person is the eight precepts (tenth precept -monks are not allowed to use money)
So it is not possible for a lay person to live without using money.
However you can live as an Anagarika in a temple.
In thailand pretty much all monks use money. In thailand monks get paid to do rituals of many different kinds.
chownah
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StrivingforMonkhood
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Re: Layman monastic life

Post by StrivingforMonkhood »

Not all monks belong to monasteries.

Some are permanent nomads, wanderers, etc. This is the original monk.

I know a man who considers himself a Buddhist monk, but he is not attached to any monastery. He's a hermit in the desert.

We can be lay and enlightened. We don't have to be monks in monasteries. We can become wanderers in the forest just by following the Buddha's teachings. We can go on our own and find true enlightenment. It is possible. You are already Buddha - you must just find it.

I am already monkish in a variety of ways. I think I might become a total hermit some day.

I always wanted a close Buddhist friend, but cannot find one. That's okay. We're an island all unto ourselves at the end of the day.

Peace and enlightenment to all! :candle:
May we all fulfill our deepest wish for happiness

We are already Buddha
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