how do devas protect metta practitioner?

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confusedlayman
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how do devas protect metta practitioner?

Post by confusedlayman »

do devas protect practitioner while doing metta or even after doing metta... ? if so how they protect?
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SteRo
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Re: how do devas protect metta practitioner?

Post by SteRo »

metaphorical saying.
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ It's definitely not science but science may provide guidelines nevertheless.
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Re: how do devas protect metta practitioner?

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

SteRo wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:39 am metaphorical saying.
Is this a metaphor too? I still don't know how to take this sutta.
Aṅguttara Nikāya 4.67 wrote:"Bhante (Venerable Sir), a certain monk at Savatthi had died bitten by a snake."

"Assuredly, monks," said the Buddha. "That monk has not suffused with thoughts of loving-kindness (metta) the four royal tribes of snakes. Had he done so, that monk would not have died of snake-bite. What are the four royal tribes of snakes? The royal tribe of snakes called Virupakkha, Erapatha, Chabyaputta, and Kanhagotamaka. Monks, that monk, did not suffuse with thoughts of loving-kindness these four royal tribes of snakes, had not done so he would not have died of snake-bite. Monks, I enjoin you to suffuse with thoughts of loving-kindness these four royal tribes of snakes for your safety, for your preservation and for your protection." So said the Blessed One. Having thus spoken, the Buddha, the "Welcome One" (Sugata), further said (suggesting how they should express themselves:)
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
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frank k
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Re: how do devas protect metta practitioner?

Post by frank k »

confusedlayman wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:55 am do devas protect practitioner while doing metta or even after doing metta... ? if so how they protect?
Here is one personal example of deva protecting my mother.
https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2 ... ivine.html

The more important factor, than whether you're doing metta at the time, is being a good person who tries to do good in the world.
The better you are at that, the more powerful the devas, and the greater number of them that tend to intervene on your behalf.

To give some more examples, I have close friends who spend an unusually high amount of energy and time helping out with their monasteries. They have many stories of lucky and fortuitous events happening to them, most of them defy logic and coincidence. You'll see that same pattern play out with virtuous people. They seem to have lots of mysterious good luck, and close encounters being rescued from misfortune.
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Re: how do devas protect metta practitioner?

Post by confusedlayman »

frank k wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:48 am
confusedlayman wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:55 am do devas protect practitioner while doing metta or even after doing metta... ? if so how they protect?
Here is one personal example of deva protecting my mother.
https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2 ... ivine.html

The more important factor, than whether you're doing metta at the time, is being a good person who tries to do good in the world.
The better you are at that, the more powerful the devas, and the greater number of them that tend to intervene on your behalf.

To give some more examples, I have close friends who spend an unusually high amount of energy and time helping out with their monasteries. They have many stories of lucky and fortuitous events happening to them, most of them defy logic and coincidence. You'll see that same pattern play out with virtuous people. They seem to have lots of mysterious good luck, and close encounters being rescued from misfortune.
nice
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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confusedlayman
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Re: how do devas protect metta practitioner?

Post by confusedlayman »

SteRo wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:39 am metaphorical saying.
how to interpret the metaphor?

one enjoys bliss of metta when attacked and hence enjoy deva pleasure in dire situation and hence one is protected from harmful mental feeling?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: how do devas protect metta practitioner?

Post by SteRo »

confusedlayman wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:13 pm
SteRo wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:39 am metaphorical saying.
how to interpret the metaphor?

one enjoys bliss of metta when attacked and hence enjoy deva pleasure in dire situation and hence one is protected from harmful mental feeling?
pervasion by metta modifes ignorant inclinations beneficially. Thus "protection". "devas" are just mythological narratives in the context of corresponding attenuated ignorance.
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ It's definitely not science but science may provide guidelines nevertheless.
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Re: how do devas protect metta practitioner?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

Easy & Simple.
The Devas within the All protect the Practitioner within the All by the power of the metta [exerted by the "practitioner"] within the All. Nothing supernaturals are involved. Manifestations and understandings at the level of conventional realities with the causes & effects working at the level of ultimate realities. There is no self, nor the others. There's no Practitioner nor the Devas. Only the workings of the dhammas; here the dhamma [metta] is in the limelight.

:heart:
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Re: how do devas protect metta practitioner?

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

frank k wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:48 am
confusedlayman wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:55 am do devas protect practitioner while doing metta or even after doing metta... ? if so how they protect?
Here is one personal example of deva protecting my mother.
https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2 ... ivine.html

The more important factor, than whether you're doing metta at the time, is being a good person who tries to do good in the world.
The better you are at that, the more powerful the devas, and the greater number of them that tend to intervene on your behalf.

To give some more examples, I have close friends who spend an unusually high amount of energy and time helping out with their monasteries. They have many stories of lucky and fortuitous events happening to them, most of them defy logic and coincidence. You'll see that same pattern play out with virtuous people. They seem to have lots of mysterious good luck, and close encounters being rescued from misfortune.
Thanks for this.
I also noticed that many strange events which could have caused my death have been happening in my life since I started to walk on the path.
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
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confusedlayman
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Re: how do devas protect metta practitioner?

Post by confusedlayman »

Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:51 pm Easy & Simple.
The Devas within the All protect the Practitioner within the All by the power of the metta [exerted by the "practitioner"] within the All. Nothing supernaturals are involved. Manifestations and understandings at the level of conventional realities with the causes & effects working at the level of ultimate realities. There is no self, nor the others. There's no Practitioner nor the Devas. Only the workings of the dhammas; here the dhamma [metta] is in the limelight.

:heart:
thanks. but can u confirm if there is no conventional beings? or u dont see it in conventional way?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: how do devas protect metta practitioner?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

confusedlayman wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:45 pm
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:51 pm Easy & Simple.
The Devas within the All protect the Practitioner within the All by the power of the metta [exerted by the "practitioner"] within the All. Nothing supernaturals are involved. Manifestations and understandings at the level of conventional realities with the causes & effects working at the level of ultimate realities. There is no self, nor the others. There's no Practitioner nor the Devas. Only the workings of the dhammas; here the dhamma [metta] is in the limelight.

:heart:
thanks. but can u confirm if there is no conventional beings? or u dont see it in conventional way?

You're welcome.

The phrase "conventional being" is tautologically superfluous. Because "being" in itself is already conventional.

Anyway, let me put it this way using that phrase. Donald Duck used to be a truely conventional being, blessing me with "wonderful" emotions of ultimate realities. Alice in wonderland is a conventional being. Natasha Rostova is a conventional being. Scarlett O'Hara is a conventional being. Heathcliff is a conventional being. Abraham Lincoln is a conventional being. Donald Trump is a conventional being. God (for the Believers) is a conventional being. You are a conventional being. I'm a conventional being. .... And, all these conventional beings have actual impact at the level of ultimate realities, when conditions are appropriate.


:heart:
.


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Re: how do devas protect metta practitioner?

Post by santa100 »

confusedlayman wrote:do devas protect practitioner while doing metta or even after doing metta... ? if so how they protect?
If metta is cultivated to a sufficient degree, one won't have to rely on the devas for their protection:
SN 20.5 wrote:“Mendicants, suppose there was a sharp-pointed spear. And a man came along and thought, ‘With my hand or fist I’ll fold this sharp spear over, bend it back, and twist it around!’

What do you think, mendicants? Is that man capable of doing so?”

“No, sir. Why not? Because it’s not easy to fold that sharp spear over, bend it back, and twist it around with the hand or fist. That man will eventually get weary and frustrated.”

“In the same way, suppose a mendicant has developed the heart’s release by love, has cultivated it, made it a vehicle and a basis, kept it up, consolidated it, and properly implemented it. Should any non-human think to overthrow their mind, they’ll eventually get weary and frustrated.

So you should train like this: ‘We will develop the heart’s release by love. We’ll cultivate it, make it our vehicle and our basis, keep it up, consolidate it, and properly implement it.’ That’s how you should train.”
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Re: how do devas protect metta practitioner?

Post by justindesilva »

confusedlayman wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:55 am do devas protect practitioner while doing metta or even after doing metta... ? if so how they protect?
In Dajagga Sutta (an 11.3) Lord budda advises his desciples who goes to dwellings in forest for meditation to seek protection with budda, damma Sangha states of mindfulness.
In Dajagga Sutta Lord budda is sceptic whether sakka (chief of deva world) or any of his clan can support the fears arising.
With Karaniya metta Sutta , another Sutta of state of mind in developing compassion towards all beings of all standards is explained as a self protection.
Lord budda always specified that only states of mind void of passion can protect anybody from fear and protection. ( See Dajagga Sutta).
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Re: how do devas protect metta practitioner?

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Re: how do devas protect metta practitioner?

Post by frank k »

It's one thing to be rational and scientific, but it's no longer rational when one rejects anything that their limited tool kit can't explain.
SteRo wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:29 pm ...
pervasion by metta modifes ignorant inclinations beneficially. Thus "protection". "devas" are just mythological narratives in the context of corresponding attenuated ignorance.
www.lucid24.org/sted : ☸Lucid24.org🐘 STED definitions
www.audtip.org/audtip: 🎙️🔊Audio Tales in Pāli: ☸Dharma and Vinaya in many languages
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