where is kamma stored and what kind of storage

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circuit
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where is kamma stored and what kind of storage

Post by circuit »

Dear sirs, I need some explanation.

1. is kamma materiality or mentality.
2. if kamma is materiality, what material makes .it continue to next life and how to transport. how does it works.
3. if kamma is mentality, where is past kamma from millions of past-lives, stored, and what kind of storage is the kamma-storage system.
4. The Buddha taught that consciusnesses are 6 consciousness, eye-c, Ear-c, nose-c, tongue-c, body-c, think-consciousness. If the storage for kamma is consciousness, then which one of these 6 is "the" storage for the huge collection of samsara past kamma?

I thank everyone all anyway
justindesilva
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Re: where is kamma stored and what kind of storage

Post by justindesilva »

circuit wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:19 am Dear sirs, I need some explanation.

1. is kamma materiality or mentality.
2. if kamma is materiality, what material makes .it continue to next life and how to transport. how does it works.
3. if kamma is mentality, where is past kamma from millions of past-lives, stored, and what kind of storage is the kamma-storage system.
4. The Buddha taught that consciusnesses are 6 consciousness, eye-c, Ear-c, nose-c, tongue-c, body-c, think-consciousness. If the storage for kamma is consciousness, then which one of these 6 is "the" storage for the huge collection of samsara past kamma?

I thank everyone all anyway
Cups kamma vibanga Sutta mentions that: beings are owners of Kamma and heirs of Kamma and progenitors of Kamma.
The position of a being depends of ones own past kamma
for being sick , healthy, while enjoying or suffering in life.
Kamma follows with sankara depending on ones consciounes
and intentions or cetana.
Kamma is also is mentioned in vasetta Sutta as kammana vattathi loko or kammana vattathi paja, meaning that kamma processes the Loka or earth and beings.
Hence as of me it can be understood that kamma is a form of universal energy that governs the earth and even planets along with its beings as lower, human and higher orders.
It can be hence said that kamma is a form of energy which has the power to decide as a power to manage our lives in happiness and suffering. However Lord budda has advised us not to try to analyse how kamma operates as it is such a complex process. It is worth to understand that in kamma there is no doer or one who suffers, to explain that kamma is a force beyond our process of life as beings.
circuit
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Re: where is kamma stored and what kind of storage

Post by circuit »

justindesilva wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:22 am

Cups kamma vibanga Sutta mentions that: beings are owners of Kamma and heirs of Kamma and progenitors of Kamma.
The position of a being depends of ones own past kamma
for being sick , healthy, while enjoying or suffering in life.
Kamma follows with sankara depending on ones consciounes
and intentions or cetana.
Kamma is also is mentioned in vasetta Sutta as kammana vattathi loko or kammana vattathi paja, meaning that kamma processes the Loka or earth and beings.
Hence as of me it can be understood that kamma is a form of universal energy that governs the earth and even planets along with its beings as lower, human and higher orders.
It can be hence said that kamma is a form of energy which has the power to decide as a power to manage our lives in happiness and suffering. However Lord budda has advised us not to try to analyse how kamma operates as it is such a complex process. It is worth to understand that in kamma there is no doer or one who suffers, to explain that kamma is a force beyond our process of life as beings.
Thanks for new insights.


the universal energy seems like nearly materiality ?
Last edited by circuit on Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: where is kamma stored and what kind of storage

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

Material kamma is a Jain concept afaik. They literally believe invisible karma particles attach to your soul when you do any action.

I don't know the answer to your question. Sorry.
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
circuit
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Re: where is kamma stored and what kind of storage

Post by circuit »

rhinoceroshorn wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:26 am Material kamma is a Jain concept afaik. They literally believe invisible karma particles attach to your soul when you do any action.

I don't know the answer to your question. Sorry.
Thanks anyway.
48vows
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Re: where is kamma stored and what kind of storage

Post by 48vows »

rhinoceroshorn wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:26 am Material kamma is a Jain concept afaik. They literally believe invisible karma particles attach to your soul when you do any action.
Some Buddhist schools taught that there is a subtle material created when a person takes vows

https://books.google.com/books?id=DXN2A ... pa&f=false
48vows
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Re: where is kamma stored and what kind of storage

Post by 48vows »

48vows wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:51 am
rhinoceroshorn wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:26 am Material kamma is a Jain concept afaik. They literally believe invisible karma particles attach to your soul when you do any action.
Some Buddhist schools taught that there is a subtle material created when a person takes vows

https://books.google.com/books?id=DXN2A ... pa&f=false
Further-

http://echo-lab.ddo.jp/Libraries/印度学仏教学 ... ddhism.pdf
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: where is kamma stored and what kind of storage

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

48vows wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:51 am
rhinoceroshorn wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:26 am Material kamma is a Jain concept afaik. They literally believe invisible karma particles attach to your soul when you do any action.
Some Buddhist schools taught that there is a subtle material created when a person takes vows

https://books.google.com/books?id=DXN2A ... pa&f=false
Buddhism was highly influenced by Jainism and Vedism in its history, no surprise.
Eyes downcast, not footloose,
senses guarded, with protected mind,
not oozing — not burning — with lust,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Dīgha Nikāya 17
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DooDoot
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Re: where is kamma stored and what kind of storage

Post by DooDoot »

circuit wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:19 am 1. is kamma materiality or mentality.
kamma is intentional action (AN 6.63)
2. if kamma is materiality, what material makes .
kamma is intention, which is mental. however, kamma can affect the physical body, such as how a sexual intention causes a physical arousal or how chronic anger can causes physical discoloration & even cancer
3. if kamma is mentality, where is past kamma... stored, and what kind of storage is the kamma-storage system.
SN 12.37 says:
Bhikkhus, this body is not yours, nor does it belong to others. It is old kamma, to be seen as generated and fashioned by volition, as something to be felt.
the Dhammapada says:
121. Think not lightly of evil, saying, "It will not come to me." Drop by drop is the water pot filled. Likewise, the fool, gathering it little by little, fills himself with evil.

122. Think not lightly of good, saying, "It will not come to me." Drop by drop is the water pot filled. Likewise, the wise man, gathering it little by little, fills himself with good.
the Dhammapada also says:
40. Realizing that this body is as fragile as a clay pot...
:alien:
4. The Buddha taught that consciusnesses are 6 consciousness, eye-c, Ear-c, nose-c, tongue-c, body-c, think-consciousness.
yes
If the storage for kamma is consciousness
sounds impossible. consciousness is sense cognition. it seems consciousness cannot store anything

consciousness can know or experience the contents in a store house but it appears consciousness cannot store things because consciousness can only know or experience or sense things
then which one of these 6 is "the" storage for the huge collection of samsara past kamma?
it appears SN 12.61 might possibly side with the view the body stores the results of kamma since the body lasts for a lifetime where as mentality only lasts for a moment:
this body composed of the four great elements is seen standing for a year, two years, three, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred years or more. But what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness' by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
:alien:
continue to next life ... millions of past-lives
i read (somewhere) that, in Theravada, 'rebirth' is instantaneous at/after death. therefore, like a squirrel jumping from one tree to another tree to store its food, possibly the mind with kammic results jumps from one storehouse body another storehouse body ;). but it seems consciousness, being sense cognition, cannot store anything

note: storehouse consciousness appears to be a Mahayana idea
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santa100
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Re: where is kamma stored and what kind of storage

Post by santa100 »

circuit wrote:1. is kamma materiality or mentality.
2. if kamma is materiality, what material makes .it continue to next life and how to transport. how does it works.
3. if kamma is mentality, where is past kamma from millions of past-lives, stored, and what kind of storage is the kamma-storage system.
4. The Buddha taught that consciusnesses are 6 consciousness, eye-c, Ear-c, nose-c, tongue-c, body-c, think-consciousness. If the storage for kamma is consciousness, then which one of these 6 is "the" storage for the huge collection of samsara past kamma?
1. If looked under the lense of material science, it wouldn't be either material or non-material. Probably something like dark matter/dark energy. It's like dark matter because dark matter can go right through your body without any impediment and doesn't require any material container medium. It's like dark energy because it carries the potential to perpetuate the manifestation of NamaRupa/materiality-mentality.
2., 3., 4. Addressed above.
Srilankaputra
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Re: where is kamma stored and what kind of storage

Post by Srilankaputra »

Few thoughts,

As I understand, what the blessed one taught is, dependant origination.

As a simile, look closely at a flame. The conglomeration of various presently arising phenemona should be called a dependant origination.

A relevent question might be, does phenemona that arose in the past period of this continuum have some effect on presently arising phenemona?

In this sense, one meaning of kamma can be thought of as a mode of conditioning. Rather special mode of conditioning where the effect does not necessarily have to be immediate, it can be somewhere down the line.

Wish you all success in all your endeavours. Goodbye!
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cappuccino
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Re: where is kamma stored and what kind of storage

Post by cappuccino »

our intentions affect our mind


our mind affects us


similar to planting a seed
dharmacorps
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Re: where is kamma stored and what kind of storage

Post by dharmacorps »

The question is what difference does it make? Will knowing how kamma is stored change your experience of suffering? :broke:
Bundokji
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Re: where is kamma stored and what kind of storage

Post by Bundokji »

From the six Ws of investigation, the four noble truths utilizes 3 and negates 3.

1- What: the first noble truth
2- Why: the second noble truth
3- How: the third noble truth

The other 3 Ws of investigation are context specific:

4- Where: about a certain location in space
5- Who: about a certain persona in the collective
6- When: about a certain point in the realm of time

From the above, your question is a wrong question. Why? because the law of kamma is a universal hence cannot be contextualized but rather utilized.

The teachings are better understood through utility, not ontology (of which context related questions are applicable). The Buddha likened his teachings to a raft which you discard after it serves its purpose.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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DooDoot
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Re: where is kamma stored and what kind of storage

Post by DooDoot »

dharmacorps wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:01 pm The question is what difference does it make? Will knowing how kamma is stored change your experience of suffering?
the results of kamma appear stored in the body, which is why we practise anapanasati:
SN 54.8 wrote:So if a monk should wish: 'May neither my body be fatigued nor my eyes, and may my mind, through lack of clinging, be released from fermentations,' then he should attend carefully to this same concentration through mindfulness of in-&-out breathing.

If a monk should wish: 'May my memories & resolves related to the household life be abandoned,' then he should attend carefully to this same concentration through mindfulness of in-&-out breathing.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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