Non-delight

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Alino
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Non-delight

Post by Alino »

Dear friends,

After struggling and contemplating another portion of dukkha born through going against stream of sense desires, I started to understand what was so clear and obvious, something I heared for many times but not realised it in my bones...

More we delight in something - more we suffer when comes time to restrain from it.

Delight is a dangerous poison, dangerous virus that penetrates our minds through sense doors and then make us feel pressure of dukkha.

We have to be realy careful with delight if we aim on freedom from sensual world. Sense restraint is something to be done anyway... Sensuality is a stream that need to be crossed over, and more we delight our senses - stronger the stream becomes, and more dangerous and more painfull it becomes to cross it over... Even impossible sometimes I suppose... So please dont take delight in the whole world, practice non-delight, incline your minds toward dispassion, see the drawbacks of sensual stimulations, and while you see that you are delighting something - balance it with non-delightfull parts of it...

In order to deepen this important topic, could you please share all suttas, video talks of Masters, and texts about : Delight, Non-delight and how to practice it that you know? It will be of great benefit for many...

Thanks you 🙏😑
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
SteRo
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Re: Non-delight

Post by SteRo »

delight is the near enemy of bliss.
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ It's definitely not science but science may provide guidelines nevertheless.
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mjaviem
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Re: Non-delight

Post by mjaviem »

Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
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cappuccino
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Re: Non-delight

Post by cappuccino »

feeling conditions craving

craving conditions clinging

clinging conditions becoming

becoming conditions birth

birth conditions aging and death, sorrow, lamentation



wikipedia
pegembara
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Re: Non-delight

Post by pegembara »

"Magandiya, suppose that there was a leper covered with sores and infections, devoured by worms, picking the scabs off the openings of his wounds with his nails, cauterizing his body over a pit of glowing embers. His friends, companions, & relatives would take him to a doctor. The doctor would concoct medicine for him, and thanks to the medicine he would be cured of his leprosy: well & happy, free, master of himself, going wherever he liked. Then suppose two strong men, having grabbed him with their arms, were to drag him to a pit of glowing embers. What do you think? Wouldn't he twist his body this way & that?"

"Yes, master Gotama. Why is that? The fire is painful to the touch, very hot & scorching."

"Now what do you think, Magandiya? Is the fire painful to the touch, very hot & scorching, only now, or was it also that way before?"

"Both now & before is it painful to the touch, very hot & scorching, master Gotama. It's just that when the man was a leper covered with sores and infections, devoured by worms, picking the scabs off the openings of his wounds with his nails, his faculties were impaired, which was why, even though the fire was actually painful to the touch, he had the skewed perception of 'pleasant.'"

"In the same way, Magandiya, sensual pleasures in the past were painful to the touch, very hot & scorching; sensual pleasures in the future will be painful to the touch, very hot & scorching; sensual pleasures at present are painful to the touch, very hot & scorching; but when beings are not free from passion for sensual pleasures — devoured by sensual craving, burning with sensual fever — their faculties are impaired, which is why, even though sensual pleasures are actually painful to the touch, they have the skewed perception of 'pleasant.

"In the same way, Magandiya, if I were to teach you the Dhamma — 'This is that freedom from Disease; this is that Unbinding' — and you on your part were to know that freedom from Disease and see that Unbinding, then together with the arising of your eyesight you would abandon whatever passion & delight you felt with regard for the five clinging-aggregates. And it would occur to you, 'My gosh, how long have I been fooled, cheated, & deceived by this mind! For in clinging, it was just form that I was clinging to... it was just feeling... just perception... just fabrications... just consciousness that I was clinging to. With my clinging as a requisite condition, there arises becoming... birth... aging & death... sorrow, lamentation, pains, distresses, & despairs. And thus is the origin of this entire mass of stress.'"

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
Padipa
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Re: Non-delight

Post by Padipa »

Delight does have a functional place, though one must be mindful of the danger inherent in it. It is only when delight is connected to conditioning, thereby becoming part of the circle of suffering, that it is an issue. But one can delight without inviting attachment to the experience.
JohnK
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Re: Non-delight

Post by JohnK »

Here is a previous thread on enjoyment and delight that may be relevant here:
https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=29039
:anjali:
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the internet creating friction. [based on Sn4:9,v.847]
Alino
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Re: Non-delight

Post by Alino »

Padipa wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:28 am Delight does have a functional place, though one must be mindful of the danger inherent in it. It is only when delight is connected to conditioning, thereby becoming part of the circle of suffering, that it is an issue. But one can delight without inviting attachment to the experience.
I dont think that it is possible to delight without attachement.
If one delight in senses - one delight in senses...

Can you please give an exemple of delight without attachnent?
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
chownah
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Re: Non-delight

Post by chownah »

Alino wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:48 am
Padipa wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:28 am Delight does have a functional place, though one must be mindful of the danger inherent in it. It is only when delight is connected to conditioning, thereby becoming part of the circle of suffering, that it is an issue. But one can delight without inviting attachment to the experience.
I dont think that it is possible to delight without attachement.
If one delight in senses - one delight in senses...

Can you please give an exemple of delight without attachnent?
AN 4.28 Ariya-vamsa Sutta: The Discourse on the Traditions of the Noble Ones
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
I'm not sure if this is an example of delight without attachment but it seems to be an example of skillful use of delight perhaps similar to what padipa said above:
Furthermore, the monk finds pleasure and delight in developing (skillful mental qualities), finds pleasure and delight in abandoning (unskillful mental qualities). He does not, on account of his pleasure and delight in developing and abandoning, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.
chownah
sunnat
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Post by sunnat »

Ramaniyani arannani
yattha na ramati jano
Vitaraga ramissanti
na te kamagavesino.

DELIGHTFUL ARE THE FORESTS TO THE PASSIONLESS

Delightful are the forests where worldlings delight not; the passionless will rejoice (therein), (for) they seek no sensual pleasures.

Story

"A monk was meditating in a pleasure park. A courtesan, who had an assignation with a certain person to meet in the park, repaired thither, but the man did not turn up. As she was strolling about she saw the monk and attempted to tempt him. The Buddha, perceiving the scene with his Divine Eye, projected himself before the monk and commented on the attractiveness of the forests where the passionless dwell."


see also Cunda Sutta SN 47.13,



my opinions: delightful is better understood as blissful. Highest delight is not the same as having delight in the experience of bliss.
myanmarnet : "Once Venerable Sariputta said: "O! Friends , Bhikkhus, Nibbanam paramam sukham", and reiterated again and again; then Venerable Udayi asked : "But friend, Sariputta, what happiness can it be if there is no sensation at all?" The reply of Ven. Sariputta was highly philosophical and beyond ordinary comprehension; "There is no sensation itself is Happiness." Nibbana is not conditioned by any cause. Hence there is neither an arising or passing away. It is birthless, decayless, and deathless. It is neither a cause nor an effect."


The Arhat doesn't delight in 'delightful' experiences and does not mourn their inevitable passing.
Alino
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Re: Non-delight

Post by Alino »

Thank you friends 🙏🙏🙏😊
So we can delight in wholesomes dhammas but not in unwholesomes
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...

"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
coconut
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Re: Non-delight

Post by coconut »

Regarding op,

To stop delighting in the senses you need to see the drawbacks, which usually involves seeing impermanence.

See impermanance as a scale or spectrum with birth/arising on one side and death/passing on the other. The average person has a perverted perception, i.e. they focus on the Arising side and suppress the Passing side.
A simple example is people loving birthdays but hating funerals.

So remove your delight by seeing the drawbacks, which entails shifting your perception to the death side of impermanance.
Dan74
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Re: Non-delight

Post by Dan74 »

Good thread.

It seems to me that worldly or sensual delights can only be successfully abandoned if one at the same time develops equanimity and bliss from solid practice.

Otherwise, it is likely to just be repression, which is not healthy and does not last.

Not an easy thing and not something I've been able to do in an enduring fashion.
_/|\_
JohnK
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Re: Non-delight

Post by JohnK »

Maha Kassapa (among others) in the Theragatha, says:
"These rocky crags delight me" (or refresh me, depending on translator).
The Pali is "ramayanti" which can also be translated as "to cause to enjoy."
Here is a previous brief thread that unpacked this.
https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=34779
The typical "delight" that we are repeatedly warned against (e.g., in the Salyatana Samyutta) is "abhinandati" which seems to perhaps carry some sense of seeking or holding delight.
:anjali:
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the internet creating friction. [based on Sn4:9,v.847]
Padipa
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Re: Non-delight

Post by Padipa »

Alino wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:48 am
Padipa wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:28 am Delight does have a functional place, though one must be mindful of the danger inherent in it. It is only when delight is connected to conditioning, thereby becoming part of the circle of suffering, that it is an issue. But one can delight without inviting attachment to the experience.
I dont think that it is possible to delight without attachement.
If one delight in senses - one delight in senses...

Can you please give an exemple of delight without attachnent?
Sure--I can give you all you want. For example, I always delight upon the experience of a sunrise or sunset: the experience has never been accompanied by attachment. It is beautiful so much more, because it is one of a kind and one of a moment, not to be repeated for me ever again--as far as my expectations go. More generally, I delight in life, without attachment, because of Death's beauty: without death, life is meaningless. I delight in my uniqueness, being a miniscule, finite part of an infinite process. I delight in the beauty of the Earth, from space, precisely because I know our Sun will incinerate it when it becomes a Red Giant--it is delight, without attachment, because I understand the Earth's role is as limited and finite as mine, so the experience is without attachment, because I fathom its transience.

I would delight in meeting a Buddha (as the Dhammapada makes clear) precisely because the meeting is such a rare happening. Do my exaples help you to understand my ability to delight, without attachment? I am rushed, on a 10 minute break from work. I could do much better if you request me to do so. jt
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