difference between tranquility and drowsiness

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confusedlayman
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difference between tranquility and drowsiness

Post by confusedlayman »

mental tranquility is needed in practice but how it is different from drowsiness with awareness?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
coconut
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Re: difference between tranquility and drowsiness

Post by coconut »

Passaddhi only comes after Piti. So first you feel rapture in the mind, then the body feels tranquil. The mind is still energetic. Sloth and torpor is the mind feeling tired and sleepy.
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Re: difference between tranquility and drowsiness

Post by Ceisiwr »

confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:09 pm mental tranquility is needed in practice but how it is different from drowsiness with awareness?
Drowsiness is foggy and not calm.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Re: difference between tranquility and drowsiness

Post by confusedlayman »

coconut wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:26 pm Passaddhi only comes after Piti. So first you feel rapture in the mind, then the body feels tranquil. The mind is still energetic. Sloth and torpor is the mind feeling tired and sleepy.
thanks...
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Re: difference between tranquility and drowsiness

Post by SteRo »

confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:09 pm mental tranquility is needed in practice but how it is different from drowsiness with awareness?
Mental tranquility is absence of restlessness, agitation and emotional turmoil. Drowsiness may be absence of restlessness, agitation and emotional turmoil, too. The difference between tranquility and drowsiness is in serviceability of mind.
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Re: difference between tranquility and drowsiness

Post by confusedlayman »

SteRo wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:14 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:09 pm mental tranquility is needed in practice but how it is different from drowsiness with awareness?
Mental tranquility is absence of restlessness, agitation and emotional turmoil. Drowsiness may be absence of restlessness, agitation and emotional turmoil, too. The difference between tranquility and drowsiness is in serviceability of mind.
thanks :thanks:
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SarathW
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Re: difference between tranquility and drowsiness

Post by SarathW »

I think drowsiness is like sloth and Topher. (one of five hindrances)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: difference between tranquility and drowsiness

Post by SDC »

From the point of view of the seven factors, energy would've been established long before tranquility is available.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Re: difference between tranquility and drowsiness

Post by Inedible »

Sloth and torpor is kind of my thing. It is like having a firm grip on something in your hand and slowly it starts to slip away from you. But mentally, with your object. And your ability to realize you are losing your grip tends to go away slowly at the same time. Sometimes it feels uncomfortable and other times it can feel really nice. Catching it early is important. If you have it really bad, you could try alternating between sitting and walking.
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Re: difference between tranquility and drowsiness

Post by Pondera »

coconut wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:26 pm Passaddhi only comes after Piti. So first you feel rapture in the mind, then the body feels tranquil. The mind is still energetic. Sloth and torpor is the mind feeling tired and sleepy.
I’m not disagreeing with you - but what if I suggested that the body feels piti and the mind feels tranquility?

Why do you have it the other way around?

Regarding OP - tranquility will lead the eye lids to be heavy - but (as the upanisa sutta shows) - the resulting condition that issues from tranquility is pleasure and then concentration - not “sleep”.

For example, when we have a big meal, the eye lids grow heavy and the mind becomes drowsy. One feels the urge to stop what they’re doing and take a nap.

In contrast, joy is the vital condition for rapture and rapture is the vital condition for tranquility. All of these things lead to heavy eye lids - but the mind is constantly moving and active.

Off topic - tranquility is obtained when the physical nerves in the brain start to let go of anyone of the ten kasinas. To be sure - additional and intentional effort to let go of said kasinas will remedy any signs of heavy eye lid drowsy sub types. IMO. THAT IS. AND ... will throw the body into sukha which develops further into samadhi.

Dzien kuje - bardzo dzien kuje :anjali:
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
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Re: difference between tranquility and drowsiness

Post by Sam Vara »

SteRo wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:14 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:09 pm mental tranquility is needed in practice but how it is different from drowsiness with awareness?
Mental tranquility is absence of restlessness, agitation and emotional turmoil. Drowsiness may be absence of restlessness, agitation and emotional turmoil, too. The difference between tranquility and drowsiness is in serviceability of mind.
Many thanks for this. It is exactly what was once explained to me by a meditation teacher on a retreat. Is it something that you have just thought of, or could you point me towards a sutta or commentary on this?
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Re: difference between tranquility and drowsiness

Post by SteRo »

Sam Vara wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:42 pm
SteRo wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:14 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:09 pm mental tranquility is needed in practice but how it is different from drowsiness with awareness?
Mental tranquility is absence of restlessness, agitation and emotional turmoil. Drowsiness may be absence of restlessness, agitation and emotional turmoil, too. The difference between tranquility and drowsiness is in serviceability of mind.
Many thanks for this. It is exactly what was once explained to me by a meditation teacher on a retreat. Is it something that you have just thought of, or could you point me towards a sutta or commentary on this?
I've been thinking about experiences I would give these names.
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Re: difference between tranquility and drowsiness

Post by Sam Vara »

SteRo wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:50 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:42 pm
SteRo wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:14 pm
Mental tranquility is absence of restlessness, agitation and emotional turmoil. Drowsiness may be absence of restlessness, agitation and emotional turmoil, too. The difference between tranquility and drowsiness is in serviceability of mind.
Many thanks for this. It is exactly what was once explained to me by a meditation teacher on a retreat. Is it something that you have just thought of, or could you point me towards a sutta or commentary on this?
I've been thinking about experiences I would give these names.
Ah, thanks. It meshes very nicely with a talk a teacher gave about the "Six pairs of beautiful cetasikas" in the Abhidhamma. I very much like the idea of "serviceability". :anjali:
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Re: difference between tranquility and drowsiness

Post by SteRo »

Sam Vara wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:54 pm
SteRo wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:50 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:42 pm

Many thanks for this. It is exactly what was once explained to me by a meditation teacher on a retreat. Is it something that you have just thought of, or could you point me towards a sutta or commentary on this?
I've been thinking about experiences I would give these names.
Ah, thanks. It meshes very nicely with a talk a teacher gave about the "Six pairs of beautiful cetasikas" in the Abhidhamma. I very much like the idea of "serviceability". :anjali:
Ok, as a non-native speaker I would of course have never associated this term if I wouldn't have read it elsewhere before ... I can't recall the context but it's been most likely a context of meditation because mental tranquility is always the first step in meditation, right?
Another term which might similar but not the same is "pliancy" but I think "pliancy" refers to having already trained in or even mastered "right concentration" and the quality of mind that ensues.
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Re: difference between tranquility and drowsiness

Post by Sam Vara »

SteRo wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:02 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:54 pm
SteRo wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:50 pm
I've been thinking about experiences I would give these names.
Ah, thanks. It meshes very nicely with a talk a teacher gave about the "Six pairs of beautiful cetasikas" in the Abhidhamma. I very much like the idea of "serviceability". :anjali:
Ok, as a non-native speaker I would of course have never associated this term if I wouldn't have read it elsewhere before ... I can't recall the context but it's been most likely a context of meditation because mental tranquility is always the first step in meditation, right?
Another term which might similar but not the same is "pliancy" but I think "pliancy" refers to having already trained in or even mastered "right concentration" and the quality of mind that ensues.
There is also kammaññata, translated by the beautiful term of wieldiness, or workableness.

Do you mind if I ask what your native language is? You write like a native speaker of English.
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