I would like to clarify the Dhukka in the four noble truths

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DooDoot
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Re: I would like to clarify the Dhukka in the four noble truths

Post by DooDoot »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:31 pm Venerable Sujato correctly addressed your concerns five years ago.
It is best for Buddhists to not engage in false speech.

Sujato answered a question on his own authoritarians forum that bans people who disagree with him. Obviously, his ideas were not debated by the questioner.
Last edited by DooDoot on Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: I would like to clarify the Dhukka in the four noble truths

Post by Coëmgenu »

DooDoot wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:32 pmIt is best for Buddhists to not engage in false speech.
Agreed! Now that this "The Buddha did not teach rebirth" nonsense is finished, the thread can continue without you grilling the confused layman over your lack of belief.

:focus:
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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DooDoot
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Re: I would like to clarify the Dhukka in the four noble truths

Post by DooDoot »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:33 pm Agreed! Now that this "The Buddha did not teach rebirth" nonsense is finished, the thread can continue without you grilling the confused layman over your lack of belief.
It is best for Buddhists to not engage in false speech.

Sujato answered a question on his own authoritarian forum that bans people who strongly disagree with & refute him. Obviously, his ideas were not debated by the questioner.

Your post is more nonsense.

Sujato does not understand the suttas. Some of his translations are utterly ridiculous.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
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Coëmgenu
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Re: I would like to clarify the Dhukka in the four noble truths

Post by Coëmgenu »

If you aren't finished this and you still want to push the issue after 5+ years of being corrected by various others, not just Ven Sujato, then I don't think that complaining about the forum culture of SuttaCentral and bemoaning its alleged authoritarianism is the best way to go about it.

:focus:
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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DooDoot
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Re: I would like to clarify the Dhukka in the four noble truths

Post by DooDoot »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:33 pm Agreed! Now that this "The Buddha did not teach rebirth" nonsense is finished"
The Buddha appeared to not teach the type of "rebirth" you imagine; plus Sujato appears wrong.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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DooDoot
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Re: I would like to clarify the Dhukka in the four noble truths

Post by DooDoot »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:36 pm If you aren't finished this and you still want to push the issue after 5+ years of being corrected by various others, not just Ven Sujato, then I don't think that complaining about the forum culture of SuttaCentral and bemoaning its alleged authoritarianism is the best way to go about it.
Sorry but you are drifting off-topic. To reiterate:

1. Sujato remains largely unchallenged in his idiosyncratic ideas on his personal forum

2. Obviously, the questioner did not challenge Sujato but simply asked Sujato to display his terrible lack of scholarship

Now, I have requested your posts here be split off into another topic.
Last edited by DooDoot on Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Coëmgenu
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Re: I would like to clarify the Dhukka in the four noble truths

Post by Coëmgenu »

DooDoot wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:38 pmNow, I have requested your posts here be split off into another topic.
Ah, clever move. This way, it will look like I started a thread to attack you, rather than intervening in your grilling of the confused layman. Very good.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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DooDoot
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Re: I would like to clarify the Dhukka in the four noble truths

Post by DooDoot »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:40 pm Ah, clever move. This way, it will look like I started a thread to attack you, rather than intervening in your grilling of the confused layman. Very good.
One without knowledge of True Dhamma cannot attack the True Dhamma. It is like urinating into the wind. Your Nagarjuna thread was annihilated and your Sujato thread will also be annihilated by the True Dhamma :smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Coëmgenu
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Re: I would like to clarify the Dhukka in the four noble truths

Post by Coëmgenu »

:juggling:

People like to say things like "I defeat you" on the Internet.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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DooDoot
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Re: I would like to clarify the Dhukka in the four noble truths

Post by DooDoot »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:43 pm:juggling:
:strawman: :jedi:
For the Blessed One, O Lord, spoke these words to me: 'I shall not come to my final passing away, Evil One, until my bhikkhus and bhikkhunis, laymen and laywomen, have come to be true disciples — wise, well disciplined, apt and learned, preservers of the Dhamma, living according to the Dhamma, abiding by the appropriate conduct, and having learned the Master's word, are able to expound it, preach it, proclaim it, establish it, reveal it, explain it in detail, and make it clear; until, when adverse opinions arise, they shall be able to refute them thoroughly and well, and to preach this convincing and liberating Dhamma.'
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Coëmgenu
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Re: I would like to clarify the Dhukka in the four noble truths

Post by Coëmgenu »

I'm sure that you think your refutations are very thorough, Doot. I'm sure that when you read that passage, something inside beams and says, "Gee! That's me!" or something of the like. Does that mean it is true?

:juggling:
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 12032
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: I would like to clarify the Dhukka in the four noble truths

Post by DooDoot »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:10 pm
1. abhinibbatti = rebirth (pretty much only used in this sense)
When the above is thoroughly refuted, it shows how wrong Sujato is. :smile:
āyantuāyati bhonto ye tattha khattiyakulā brāhmaṇakulā rājaññakulā uppannā, sākassa vā sālassa vā salaḷassa vā candanassa vā padumakassa vā uttarāraṇiṃ ādāya, aggiṃ abhinibbattentu, tejo pātukarontu

Let the good sirs come; and let those who are of noble, priestly and royal families, bringing an upper piece of fire-stick of teak or sāl or of a sweet-scented tree or of sandal or lotus, light a fire and get it to produce heat.

MN 93
Aṭṭhānametaṃa bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ kāya*su*cari*tassa aniṭṭho akanto amanāpo vipāko nibbatteyya.

It is impossible a disagreeable result could be produced from good conduct....

AN 1.287
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Coëmgenu
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Re: I would like to clarify the Dhukka in the four noble truths

Post by Coëmgenu »

Is your refutation "thorough" yet? I don't want to start before you are finished. I like to take my time on these threads, so I of course extend the courtesy of not rushing others.
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 12032
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: I would like to clarify the Dhukka in the four noble truths

Post by DooDoot »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:45 pm :juggling:
A person should not use a monk to support their unsubstantiated ideas because this brings disrepute & humiliation upon the monk due to the person's own person negligence and kamma.

When true Buddhists ask Sujato questions on his own forum, they do not wish to humiliate and embarrass him by refuting him.

In summary:

1. The questioner on SC practised good karma by not refuting Sujato on his own forum

2. A non-Buddhist troll on another forum that uses Sujato to defend their unlearned views commits double bad kamma by not relying on their own learning and subjecting a bhikkhu with his own sect of followers to humiliation.

:pig:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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DooDoot
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Re: I would like to clarify the Dhukka in the four noble truths

Post by DooDoot »

Coëmgenu wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:53 pm If your refutation "thorough" yet? I don't want to start before you are finished. I like to take my time on these threads, so I of course extend the courtesy of not rushing others.
Are you asking for more punishment? :jedi:
Bhikkhu Bodhi MN 96 footnote: 'attabhāvassa abhinibbatti' literally should be: "wherever the reconception of his individuality takes place".
Since when was the "eye" subject to "reincarnation"? :rofl:
Yo kho, bhikkhave, cakkhussa uppādo ṭhiti abhinibbatti pātubhāvo, dukkhasseso uppādo...

The continued arising, production , manifestation and acquisition in respect to the eye is the arising of suffering.

SN 26.1
Refuting Sujato is child's play because not even the mainstream translators agree with his infantile ideas.
Last edited by DooDoot on Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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